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Germany - departure from Schengenland police control

Is there a list somewhere online of the German airfields with this in/out police authority?

Try this one?

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/resources/documents/list_airports.pdf

Technically this list is for flights to/from countries outside the EU, but these airports should be able to process Schengen Area exit/entry as well.

Last Edited by James_Chan at 15 May 11:25

Bluebeard wrote:

On landing at Seppe, we were greeted by three courteous but firm policemen: the authorities had not received any Gendec. What they really wanted was a piece of paper, a printed Gendec. Showing them the emails on my computer did not satisfy them. Eventually, after much time was wasted, Seppe’s ATC found a copy of my forwarded email, printed it and the police departed.

Probably for your case the was them not receiving a notification (fwd email from ATC/OPS or data from a website) rather than the GENDEC format?

I did plan to land at Breda inbound from UK in April, but we went via Calais at the end, the funny thing is that customs did turn up at Seppe (we sent PN+FP but we cancel both in last minute as we decided to get to Calais new restaurant opening day and flew intra-shengen to Seppe) they did not seem bothered about having a UK GAR format instead of a GENDEC nor the fact that it was cancelled

Now I try to avoid sending a notification to ATC/OPS (twice forgotten to fwd) or using dodgy/non reliable websites (like the UK home office GAR new website), I prefer to phone/email the local guys directly as far as practical

Bluebeard wrote:

We should have landed at Paderborn after all, or gone nonstop …….

You could have sent FP+PN to both Seppe/Paderborn/XYZ say 1 day before and cancel/delay on the day, much easier that way than the reverse?

ESSEX, United Kingdom

Sadly the world is filling up with assorted vermin, spongers and wide boys, who set up yet another website for “managing airport traffic” and with some smooth talking bull they convince the airport manager (who more often than not is well behind the curve anyway) to sign up to it…

As you found out, the police (everywhere) couldn’t care less if you complied with your duties, if they didn’t get the email. It’s an SOP…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It used to be the case that in the UK, with over 50 police forces, if the local “Special Branch” (bizarre name) didn’t get your GAR form for whatever reason – e.g. no paper in their fax machine – it was deemed not to have existed. Thankfully this situation has been cleaned up with centralised processing.

The police who greeted us at Seppe did not have a coherent explanation as to why they appeared at all, if they did not get the Gendec. Possibly it was the flight plan, filed some hours earlier through Skydemon, they could not say.

I am no wiser than before this episode as to how to deal effectively with Dutch police in or out requirements in a paper-free manner.

I’ve previously made up a spreadsheet with separate auto-populated output formats to satisfy Irish and French requirements, maybe I will add a Dutch output format so this could be emailed to the relevant airfield to deal with as it seems there is no central address.

As the data any securocrat may require is limited to certain fields, perhaps someone should develop an all-purpose app to cover non-Schengen requirements and equivalents (Greece for example, Switzerland). The recipients of the data of course want all the inputting into the recipient’s own database to be done by the user.

Bah.

Bluebeard
Ireland

Bluebeard wrote:

in a paper-free manner

Don’t bother. Carry a paper “gendec” unless they want an electronic copy. When the Netherlands started asking for this “gendec” some five or so years ago, they seemed to be happy with anything that had the required information on it, so the UK GAR form was sufficient of which I luckily had a copy. I don’t know if they now insist on a particular format or colour of paper.

Biggin Hill

Yes it is a great idea to print off a copy of the GAR and carry that. It has come in handy a few times.

The problem is when an airport wants the information some time in advance.

AFAICT this is a standard hate among bizjet pilots who have to deal with a myriad of these websites all the time. Most just want to email the details to the handler.

In terms of IT it would not be hard to write a script which presents a uniform user interface and forwards the info to the appropriate website, or even emails it directly to the airport or the handler. I think the challenges are

  • it has to be funded somehow, and 99% of GA won’t pay
  • it won’t be that cheap to run because you need a human in there, constantly updating the back end
  • ideally such a service would replace the various current websites, but these websites have already been “sold” to the respective airport management
  • there is no obvious way to market it
  • it has to be secure, because names, addresses and passport details are enough to empty somebody’s bank account
  • it’s already been tried
  • there is no obvious advantage to an airport, because an airport can discharge its obligation without it, and same goes for the police, so there is no reason for either body to buy into it (the computerisation of the NHS, perhaps? )
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Cobalt wrote:

I don’t know if they now insist on a particular format or colour of paper.

Well I hope nothing with fancy colors does go via fax/aftn terminals, you can only send colored fax if you just bought the two colored fax machines from the same shop/manufacturer

Even for GAR, the only time I got a reply to my email (from French side), it was asking to resend in .doc format (someone did not manage to open that .xls), so always good idea to carry a print in paper or have it ready in your tablet

ESSEX, United Kingdom

Some of the suggestions here are premised on having access to a printer. It is not practical to print stuff when you are on the road on a flexi-itinerary, that leads to needing to carry a 12 volt printer and other pre-21st century scenarios.

OnlineGAR.com’s website does not allow for self-assembly of a report even though (in my case) all the necessary information is held there. It is designed – understandably – for flights to or from the UK only.

Maybe I’ll just make up some standard forms of my own design containing all the information commonly demanded about occupants, and carry a few printed blanks. Actually GENDEC is a misnomer, the ICAO form of GENDEC does not require passenger details of the sort now required by border controls. Btw I note the form linked via the website of EHMZ asks for details of when the aircraft was last sprayed with insecticide, must get some flykiller ;-)

All this heightened border control stuff is a symptom of the rise of xenophobia in countries’ political climates and voter attitudes, with suspicion of foreigners and pressure on Schengen; we should try not to blame the plods charged with enforcing it.

Bluebeard
Ireland

This info might be obsolete but at one stage some years ago I implemented the specific GENDEC requirements into our flightplan app as well as that I collaborated with Carl from Onlinegar.com to integrate it there as well.

EHRD, Netherlands

AeroPlus, that link sets off an “infected” alarm for me.

I do frequently use OnlineGAR. But as far as I can see the Netherlands-format output from OnlineGAR is available only if the flight is to or from the UK.

Bluebeard
Ireland
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