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Flying in Italy - why so difficult?

Some may have seen my specific question on Perugia posted earlier, but given that they have now decided that they don’t have any parking available, I’m acting the net (a lot) further.

How does flying in Italy actually work? Pardon the tone of the question, but airports either 1) don’t respond, 2) have no AVGAS available 3) have very short grass runways or 4) Charge extraordinary prices. Mostly a combination of several of these.

I’m trying desperately to find an airport in reasonable distance to Toscany – going to a destination close to Montepulciano. Are there anyone with local knowledge that can help me out?

I have tried the following:
- Perugia. No availability
- Siena. No reply
- Arezzo. No AVGAS (and expensive at 150 EUR)

Flying an SR22, so prefer a hard runway and would like to be able to fuel, but not essential. Given the distance we’re starting to look at from Montepulciano, I would need a hire car as well.

Help please !

EGTR

If you start reconsidering South Europe as an extension of North Africa then many of your questions could be answered. Additionaly if you cant communicate in the local language on the phone,the chances of Email,Fax even FPL response are tiny.Italy in general is notorious in dysfunctions.Perugia especialy is described as “casino” in Italian slang by a friend working there.Ferragosto is approaching and everybody wants to NOT be there in position.

LGGG

I have just returned from Perugia (LIRZ) with an SR22T and have found them to be very accommodating:
- Handling is mandatory, and budget about EUR 200 for delta FOB.
- Paperwork was a breeze both on arrival and on departure, and that is not a given in Italy.
- Parking on the apron is indeed very limited, and having seen their GA apron it looks a like a junk yard. However, the FBO referred me to a local company offering hangarage. The price for the hangar was about EUR 30 per day for an SR22 including towing into and out of the hangar. Super clean and modern facilities, very good service.
- AVGAS available through BP, and the handling agent will ensure that somebody is waiting for you at the pump as you arrive.

LIRZ is not cheap, but it is still the most viable airfield for an SR22 in that part of Italy. The only other halfway GA-friendly alternative in Tuscany or Umbria with AVGAS, >= 750m of paved runway would be Lucca, but they do not have an IAP, their operating hours are limited and they are known for ridiculously fussy invoicing and paperwork, plus they are tucked under the Pisa CTR with restricted areas and Pisa and Firenze APP. My advice: Try again for LIRZ and inquire about the possibility for a hangar.
Good luck, Philipp

Thanks for the advice Philipp, I’ll try to ask LIRZ about space in the hangar.

I am not to fussed about and IAF and my price elasticity is becoming pretty low as well. Lucca is quite a drive from Montepulciano though. LIAA Terri looks more “convenient” at slightly less than 2 hours drive. Does anyone have any experiences?

Another alternative could be LIQQ, Serristori. Only 500m but could work with a fuel stop. Any experience here?

EGTR

mmgreve wrote:

How does flying in Italy actually work? Pardon the tone of the question, but airports either 1) don’t respond, 2) have no AVGAS available 3) have very short grass runways or 4) Charge extraordinary prices. Mostly a combination of several of these.

mmgreve wrote:

Flying an SR22, so prefer a hard runway and would like to be able to fuel, but not essential.

You didn’t indicate that IFR is a prerequisite. If it is, then choices are indeed limited. Same for customs & immigration, if needed. Most Italian airports with those facilities don’t cater to GA, have only Jet-A, and are expensive. That is more and more true the further south one goes. The other extreme is all the shorter (<=400m) airfields that are used mostly by light sport aircraft or ULMs. These might have Avgas, but often only Mogas. The faster 4-seat+ GA aircraft needing Avgas and a paved runway fall into a category that has fewer options, especially finding an airfield near a fixed destination.

I gather you haven’t flown much outside central Europe or the US. Italy is better than many other countries in Europe, but they are often not comfortable with written English.
- suggest you try phoning Sienna. There are other reports here that Sienna works but a phone call is needed.
- I don’t agree with the comments about Lucca, at least not in the negative way they are presented. Lucca is friendly, has Avgas and a 900m hard surface runway, and gobs of parking. Have been there several times and the paperwork was not at all fussy. It is a favourite of mine.
- have you tried Terni (LIAA A. Leonardi)? It is very friendly, has the cheapest Avgas in the district, an 800m hard surface runway, and is inexpensive. It is closer to Montepulciano than Lucca. Landing fee is minimal and is waived if fuel is purchased. It is another favourite and I hope to return soon. When I was there last summer there were three new hangars since the previous visit (probably all filled with VLAs)… Terni
- what about Castiglione del Lago? It doesn’t have a hard surface runway or Avgas, but the runway is 800m and it is VERY close to Montepulciano.

Last Edited by chflyer at 03 Aug 20:24
LSZK, Switzerland

mmgreve wrote:

Another alternative could be LIQQ, Serristori. Only 500m but could work with a fuel stop. Any experience here?

Have not been myself, but everyone I know who has been there has raved about it, if the 500m paved runway is workable. It has a pool, restaurant, rooms, and Avgas. Try the write ups in eddh.de (with google translate if needed). Serristori

LSZK, Switzerland

mmgreve wrote:

How does flying in Italy actually work? Pardon the tone of the question, but airports either 1) don’t respond, 2) have no AVGAS available 3) have very short grass runways or 4) Charge extraordinary prices. Mostly a combination of several of these.

Well, to reply to that question: to a certain degree, it doesn’t work. Is this surprising? No. Most southern European countries don’t have a GA culture as we have in Germany, or, to some degree, in the UK. Around here, we have a GA instructure, i.e. dedicated GA airfields with 800m+ asphalt runways, regular opening hours, fuel, etc., catering for the “GA pilot”. This however is a consequence of demand. In Italy, there is very little demand for this, i.e. airports below the regional airline airport level (say, Perugia) and above the ultralight strip level (say, Serristori).

It is not specific to Italy though. Take Greece. Say you want to go to some place on the mainland. Chances are, you will not find a proper airfield or small airport that will gladly accomodate you within two hours of driving. Same in Croatia actually. Or in Spain. Or in Portugal. The infrastructure simply does not exist. Because the demand isn’t there.

In Italy, the airfield situation in the north is quite OK (wealthy, highly developed area). But south of that is bad. The south of Tuscany has always been a problem. Always.

Generally, the bigger airports aren’t there to serve the needs of private users. They are there to burn tax money and employ people. A different culture.

As PhJebens reported, the parking problem in Perugia can be solved by third party hangarage.
Surprising that it is totally impossible to raise someone from Aeroclub Siena. But well, now we are in August, and all Italians go on vacation in August. Many aeroclubs actually shet their doors completely for a few weeks. But who wants to go to Italy in August anyway?
Arezzo might be the same. Yes, they charge a little bit much for parking, but sometimes, one also has to negotiate a bit.
Serristori isn’t trivial in an SR22. I am doing quite a lot of short strips, but I remember once landing on 34 at LIQQ. Thing is, due to the road, one can’t approach too low, so it is impossible to touch down at the very beginning of the runway. If you carry just a couple of knots too much speed, you will touch down even further down the runway. I had to brake quite a bit, and still got onto the (fine) grass overrun at the end of the asphalt a bit. Winds permitting, I would now prefer to always land on 16.

Avgas is not so much of an issue on a trip like this. It is usually solved by making an extra stop somewhere where fuel is known to be a non-issue (and possibly cheaper, as well).

Last Edited by boscomantico at 04 Aug 06:57
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

mmgreve wrote:

Another alternative could be LIQQ, Serristori. Only 500m but could work with a fuel stop. Any experience here?

I used LIQQ as a fuel stop a few years back, I can highly recommend it. This type of airfield is probably the best choice in Italy…

EBMO, EBKT

If you start reconsidering South Europe as an extension of North Africa then many of your questions could be answered

That’s a very accurate statement!

Not everybody likes to hear it however. In my 20 year flying career I have met a bunch of people, always from countries “immediately north of the Alps”, who are self proclaimed “Italy-lovers” and only they, or a native Italian, are allowed to post on these topics. So I’ve been beaten up over it many times, in various places on the internet, when I wrote up some adventures down there

Firstly, the good stuff. Italians, as individuals, are very friendly. And you do get some wonderfully nice airports: Aosta (the jewel, IMHO), Bolzano, Lucca… Same can be said about Greece actually: 100% friendly individuals, so long as they are not working in a company with which you have to do business (I buy plastics and moulded components from Italy).

Unfortunately – as in most of southern Europe – the economy doesn’t support the “higher end” GA, like there is plenty of in the UK, Germany, and France, and to a lesser extent elsewhere in the north of Europe. There is plenty of money around but it is in the hands of people who don’t do GA. So the community has collapsed into ULs operating from a large number of “strips”.

As with Greece, you need to “pick your battles”. Then you can go to enough places to enjoy it.

And there is always Croatia, which runs usefully along much of Italy and where everything works, with customs, immigration, friendly well-organised airports, and avgas. It makes a good base for trips into Italy.

We have a fly-in to Sicily soon.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

Same in Croatia actually.

Although Croatia seems to be kind of GA friendly, you’re totally right. Besides international airports which are practically dedicated to CAT, there are only three or four GA airports with regular working hours (LDLO and LDPV – coastal and LDVA – inland, soon to be reopen, plus LDSB which is more GA with little bit of CAT). All others are just grass landing strips, operated mainly by half-functioning local aero clubs with runway conditions highly depending on season and no other infrastructure (public traffic, rental car or similar).

As a consequence, prices are getting higher and parking positions are not easy to get, especially in high season. For occasional visit it doesn’t seem to be a problem (you prearrange everything in advance, accept the cost as a part of “bigger picture” of whole trip) but for regular GA flying Croatia fits to general picture of Southern Europe.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia
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