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A new rip off - Valladolid LEVD

I landed this week in Valladolid (Spain) just for refueling. The price for 100LL was 2,58 (incl. VAT) per liter which is more or less OK BUT I was charged 29 % on top of this for various services, figure out what: The price for 144 l Avgas was € 372, in addition €78.73 tax on Gen Aviation, plus €13.07 Special tax, plus € 16.94 for Hook Up (connecting the truck to my plane I assume! There are only 2 or 3 commercial flights a day in Valladolid. Landing tax was only € 11.22. Everybody there was very friendly but when I asked Approach to practice 2 or 3 ILS they refused saying that only ONE is authorized. How long will general aviation in Spain (or even in Europe) be able to survive?

How long will general aviation in Spain (or even in Europe) be able to survive?

There IS no GA (meaning at the certified level, bit below bizjets) worth mentioning in Spain.

Everybody there was very friendly but when I asked Approach to practice 2 or 3 ILS they refused saying that only ONE is authorized.

Ask this to ATC on the spot in the UK and they will laugh at you. Actually, silimar in Germany. No multiple approaches without PPR.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Ask this to ATC on the spot in the UK and they will laugh at you.

If it’s your destination under IFR and they have the capacity, they would offer 2nd one (under IFR or even VFR), however, you can’t ask out of the blue though (you need PPR for ILS training, especially when not landing, the answer is 100% = NO)

You can fly standard missed and get another ILS, doing 6 of these could be a problem my understanding, you need PPR for multiple practice ILS to make sure they get your details for the invoice (no flight plans), it’s as simple as that, if they are busy with “serious arrivals” they will delay training slots

I asked Approach to practice 2 or 3 ILS they refused saying that only ONE is authorized

There is no such thing as “practice ILS” once you go southern Europe, especially, non-radar airports and strict controllers however, you can go missed “due to a gust” and then fly 2nd procedural approach

In most of these commercial airports, you need to land under IFR, close IFR flight plan, go to see who ever you need to see in terminal, file IFR again, request IFR start up, request taxi, takeoff, fly SID until assigned level, en-route and then come back to fly ILS again

PS: it’s written in AIP that you can’t do touch-and-go or do low-pass in LEVD

LEVD is still a good Spanish AENA airport, whta is wrong? other than predictible stuff like expensive Avgas price in Spain and non-radar controllers requiring you to land or go missed, there is no PPR and no Handling at LEVD, I don’t think there are that many airports like this?

Last Edited by Ibra at 18 Mar 20:34
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

however, you can’t ask out of the blue though (you need PPR for ILS training, especially when not landing, the answer is 100% = NO)

I regularly do exactly that at an air airport not far from my base. I’d say 90% sucessfully. Booking will yield a Yes much less than 90% of the time because the FTOs book it for an hour at a time. And then often don’t turn up, maybe an hour late, which is why it works for me.

There are indeed airports which will turn you away (refuse a landing or approach clearance) if you didn’t “get PPR” previously even if they have capacity (i.e. just to make the point that you didn’t get PPR so you must be punished for that) but they are not all that common. But they do exist sporadically all over Europe. I would expect to find more of these as one goes further south in Europe, because “official behaviour” gets more anal as one approaches the equator

If it’s your destination under IFR and they have the capacity

I think LEVD will have “capacity” about 99.9% of the time.

There is very little GA in Spain going to these “massive” airports. Most Spanish certified GA collapsed many years ago and what is left is ultralights operating between what are basically private strips. Same in Italy. The Spanish collapse was triggered by the economic bust when the EU money (and the construction boom) came to an end.

From here this was the scene at LELL 10 years ago – all wreckage. I believe it has been bulldozed away since

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@iggy seems to keep the certified GA flag flying in his Cirrus :) There seems to be a few buddies who also do fly outs with him.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

Ask this to ATC on the spot in the UK and they will laugh at you. Actually, silimar in Germany. No multiple approaches without PPR.

That may be an exaggeration wrt Germany. There are Swiss students that practice IAPs at Friedrichshafen AFAIK, and I don’t believe PPR is required but could be wrong.

It won’t work at Zurich or Geneva but smaller airfields in Switzerland (LSZR, LSZG, LSZB, LSGC) are all we have to practice the real thing and none of them need PPR. I regularly fly to LSZR and on first contact with approach I tell them my program, usually 2-3 or more IAPs, and I’ve never been refused. Of course there is a price $$$, as for everything in Switzerland.

LSZK, Switzerland

@Peter

The decline of general aviation (GA) in Spain cannot be attributed solely to the end of the economic boom. Rather, it is largely due to the fact that airclubs were evicted from airports and AENA imposed numerous taxes and requirements on GA, making it impractical to fly in Spain. Consequently, many individuals have turned to ultralight aircraft (ULM), which are easier to operate, maintain, and cheaper to fly. Given Spain’s small size, the country boasts excellent fast rail connections and highways, rendering GA travel unnecessary for most people. Additionally, favorable weather conditions typically negate the need for Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flying. Rising gas prices and high excise taxes on AVGAS for private flying have also contributed to the decline.

@Ibra

Many secondary airports in Spain are military bases with a terminal on the opposite side of the runway. Military air traffic control (ATC) personnel, who feel they only work for military aircraft, tend to view civilian light aviation as a hassle. They are aware that they are not paid enough to handle civilian traffic and have convinced airport managers to introduce unnecessary restrictions on the AIP. AENA offered to pay extra to these ATC personnel years ago, but the Air Force declined.

Don't get too slow
LECU, Spain

AENA offered to pay extra to these ATC personnel years ago, but the Air Force declined.

I know this is historical but maybe that’s why the AF declined

Given Spain’s small size, the country boasts excellent fast rail connections and highways, rendering GA travel unnecessary for most people

That’s actually true for most of central Europe, but GA is doing OK there. So maybe it is the other factors.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Military air traffic control (ATC) personnel, who feel they only work for military aircraft, tend to view civilian light aviation as a hassle.

Funnily enough Mil ATC in UK are the only guys who can offer as many PAR, SRA, ILS for free without even booking or PPR

However, they are damn clear you should not land

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Mar 21:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

Funnily enough Mil ATC in UK are the only guys who can offer as many PAR, SRA, ILS for free without even booking or PPR

However, they are damn clear you should not land

More like “the only guys that might offer some approaches” these days.

EGTR
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