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Aosta LIMW

Thank you all for the tips.

I am very comfortable flying to the overhead at say FL150 and then either going straight down, or – with ATC clearance – joining up to the IAF for the IAP under VFR (under VFR because it is special authorisation only) and flying the IAP just to see what it is like and to get a good movie

It is getting back out where I need to make sure the TB20 can do it. The climb rate is 1000fpm at MSL reducing linearly to 0 at say 20k. I will need to find a proper topo map and study how the terrain rises out of the airport, to the west.

Coming out of Aosta to the west, with a moderate climb rate I can be at 10k by the time I reach Mc Blanc.

There is no way to go into these airports unless it is blue skies. One checks the webcam before departing, and from Shoreham it is only a ~3hr flight. Similar with getting out…

for gods sake have some good altitude before you leave the area of Aosta

@buckerfan do you mean climbing in an orbit around the airport? If one just departs normally, all one can do is one’s climb rate, whatever that is.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

do you mean climbing in an orbit around the airport?

Is the valley wide enough to comfortably do that?

ELLX

If you leave VFR you can spiral climb wherever you want if needed, even overhead the airport if they are happy with it. But if you can hold 750 fpm, I don’t think orbits are warranted to either Grand or Petit Saint Bernard. Maybe for the higher pass. What Buckerfan means is you don’t want to find out you need to climb when you get too close in case there are downdrafts.

If you want to go really scenic there is a valley going from Aosta all the way to Cervinia – you can then cross the ridge between Klein Matterhorn and Matterhorn itself at 14 -15k. Worth the detour.

Even on a blue sky day i wouldn’t do it with more than 20kts of wind.

T28
Switzerland

@lionel Aosta is wider than Samedan, and Samedan is wide enough to do this:



T28
Switzerland

I deliberately flew the Matterhorn/Cervinia- Aosta- Mt Blanc route a couple of weeks ago in good weather flying back home from Friedrichshafen. I was climbing westwards, but if you are descending into Aosta, and depending on altitude, the valley south from Cervinia is doable but rather narrow at times. The beautiful old grass altiport of Chamois used to be there. Not any more I think. If you are into mountains then I agree it cannot get much more scenic than this, with the glaciers, the valleys and of course, the mountains.

We have to remember this is the area of the dreaded mid-air of not long ago. In my case this was a Sunday with great wx and there was significant traffic. ATC-wise this area is complicated since you are switching Switzerland/Italy/France in a very short time and “info” frequencies are quite busy on good weekend days. Your nearby traffic is likely to be on a different frequency. Useful to monitor 130.00 but it’s mostly French.

Also do not underestimate the depth of the valley: even if the numbers might seem right, and even on a no-wind day your aircraft performance is going to be influenced by slight up/downdrafts in the valley and I would not make my bets on a direct climb westwards out of LIMW, worse so if NA. Having said that, it is no problem to circle as required.

I never flew IFR into Aosta, but once flew there VFR via a similar route as proposed by Peter, for the sake of scenery.

I have depicted the Cervinia route in red below and my scenic route in yellow. I seem to recall I was descending with full flaps, gear down and low power from miles out into Aosta to avoid circling while enjoing the scenery. I also marked the cols du Petit and du Grand St Bernard

Thinking about it again, my actual route in the last east-wards part must have been slightly further north closer to the overhead of La Salle

Last Edited by Antonio at 01 Oct 08:06
Antonio
LESB, Spain

Chamois is well and alive. Link

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Unless I can plot the elevations along the proposed departure route, I would circle around the airport. The valley is huge.

The return route is straightforward as far as a valid FP goes

Looking at it on Google Earth, the valley base barely rises all the way to Mc Blanc, and then there isn’t much, all the way to the big lake. What am I missing?

Can someone here fly it on a sim?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Unless I can plot the elevations along the proposed departure route

You can do that on Geoportail. Tools (spanner icon), Mesures, Etablir un profil altimetrique

Nympsfield, United Kingdom

OK; many thanks. That works well

8000ft max. And the highest point is here

That requires a climb of 6300ft over 28nm, which is 225ft/mile which I make 337fpm at 90kt GS. In reality I should start at 900fpm and should still be doing 500fpm at 10000ft.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Can someone here fly it on a sim?

I always fly it on Google map

As long as sky is clear and wind is acceptable, on the return leg, you should be able to see the MtBlanc from Aosta before you takeoff and as long as you can show +700fpm you will be at 10kft before Courmayeur

What’s problematic IMO is the 3h to get there on the out leg, that is a lot for checking the weather and making Go/NoGo call for VFR in the Alps

Maybe plan a “tech stop diversion quarantine exempt” for 1min to look at webcams at Annecy or Annemasse? or further south in Italy if in doubts?

The tightest valley in that place is the one at Chamonix going south, in case you can’t it still ok to overfly the restricted areas RA30A&B, just talk in the mountain freq & monitor Geneva/Milano info or ask approach for above in Class D

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 Oct 10:39
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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