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Aosta LIMW

Thanks. One does need 13k or so to go directly to LIMW; to go lower would need the canyons.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Can someone post some details on how to get into Aosta VFR, please? We are discusing a fly-in there mid-Jan 2022, possibly with a ski detour to Cervinia, and some are VFR only.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

If I am doing it, I would go via BourgStMx to LaTuile, doable without O2, one can go straight to BourgStMX or take the beautiful valley via Alberville on the French/Italian border crossing there is the fire range NOTAMS area that one can still penetrate VFR (but IFR has to climb 2kft above it)

I think lower is also possible via Sion/Aosta with a Velley pass from Martigny to Gran St Bernardo?

No idea which route is better or safer…

VFR MSA is at 10500ft (500ft margin+/-2nm)

IFR MSA is 13000ft (2000ft margin +/-5nm), proper radar IFR is 18kft down there?

Last Edited by Ibra at 15 Dec 20:17
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

The much simpler route is via Megeve than direct.

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

I recently did the short hop Courchevel to Aosta and then the next leg to the north via San Bernardo. A great flight but both ways in/out the Aosta valley are steep with high rough terrain. Such a fly in would need excellent weather to work out. The only easy way into Aosta is probably coming a long way from the east.

An interesting detail are the danger / prohibited areas in the Aosta valley. Airport staff told me the prohibited area in short final must be there because of the prison nearby but Italian CAA knowns you can not land without corssing it. So they did all agree to put it on the map to do their formal duty and then to simply ignore it in real life…

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

Sebastian_G wrote:

ut it on the map to do their formal duty and then to simply ignore it in real life…

Oh that is soooooo Italian! Happens in Spain too

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Sebastian_G wrote:

An interesting detail are the danger / prohibited areas in the Aosta valley. Airport staff told me the prohibited area in short final must be there because of the prison nearby but Italian CAA knowns you can not land without crossing it. So they did all agree to put it on the map to do their formal duty and then to simply ignore it in real life…

They could have taken the opposite approach… The most common instruction given in response to an initial call to land at one of the local airports in my area is “make right base, report the prison” and indeed the prison has its own visual reporting point name and flag on the FAA chart. Its a high security facility holding some notorious people so better to fly over than crash into I usually don’t fly directly overhead because I like to make a slightly shorter final approach, and also because something inside tells me not to do so

Last Edited by Silvaire at 16 Dec 00:24

Thanks, all. I’m one of the VFR guys that Peter mentions above.

The Grand St Bernard route (when coming from the north) does look like the most direct, but does involve longer in they valleys (coming from Lake Geneva, the high ground starts at about Bex) than the route via Bourg St M.

Here is a video of Aosta to Sion via GSB. Looks doable if the wx is suitable.



[ youtube link fixed – see Posting tips ]

Last Edited by Indochine at 16 Dec 00:07
EGTF, United Kingdom

Even though I fly nearly everything in mainland Europe under IFR, flight in mountains is basically VFR, because

  • once below the MSA/MEA/MVA (usually terrain plus 2000ft but local customs vary) ATC will require that you cancel IFR
  • you don’t want to hit something, so need to be visual
  • while there often are IAPs, one would need real balls to fly them in IMC
  • if in IMC, icing is a risk, especially if flying a missed approach – some discussion e.g. here

When I went to LIMW Oct last year I flew to the Matterhorn (intentionally, to get photos) and then turned west and descended straight down to the runway – as my video shows



That’s an easy way but you need to be above 10k. Trip report and here in more detail.

Another tactic common at the airport, for a westerly departure (if e.g. going back to the UK) is to depart to the east and climb as required, then turn back and continue the climb towards Mt Blanc. In the above forum thread there was much discussion, with assertions that it can’t be done with a direct westerly departure, but I worked it out by looking at the actual elevations and the TB20 did it easily. It’s all in the video.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Sebastian_G wrote:

Airport staff told me the prohibited area in short final must be there because of the prison nearby but Italian CAA knowns you can not land without corssing it. So they did all agree to put it on the map to do their formal duty and then to simply ignore it in real life…

Or they decide (and publish in the AIP) that aircraft on short final are exempt. Such notes are not at all uncommon.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 16 Dec 08:03
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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