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VFR trip from EHLE to LFLC, and back – looking for advice.

Hi all,

My brother is a technical sales representative for Embrear at LFLC airport. So I like to pay him a visit and the best way to expand my horizon and experience is to fly there myself. My father will be my PAX and he loves flying, so he is looking forward to do this trip. Although this will be my first long trip with multiple legs, I have a some experience with flying abroad; two times into Germany (VFR in a DA20) and one time to UK (IFR in a DA42, Duxford). Weather permitting, I will be flying VFR to LFLC at Friday, august 26 and back to EHLE on Sunday, august 28.

Some data to start with:

  • Aircraft: Diamond Katana DA20
  • Pilot: VFR, +/- 100 hrs PIC
  • Endurance: 2 hours (with 2 POB)
  • Flying altitude: T.b.d. but preferably within the range of FL040 – FL065, or higher. Depending on the weather.

Route
Due to the endurance I have planned legs of 1,5 hours each. I started with Skyvector for a rough route planning and fine-tuned it in EasyVFR (see picture). The first stop will be LFQV (Charleville Mezieres) and the second stop will be LFLA (Auxerre). Just for refueling, stretching our legs and have something to eat.

On the end side of our trip, LFLC, my brother already arranged that we can park in front of the hangar of Aéro Club d’Auvergne (position M).
Thus far I’ve studied all necessary AIP documents, read about and trying to remember French RT, read several threads about flying in Belgium and France (here, here and here) and studied the known weather information resources (and this thread). In the next few days I will contact the airports to inform them about our possible arrival and confirm the have the right fuel (everything that smells like MOGAS will do) ;-) and everything else I need to know. VFR maps of Belgium and the Netherlands I already have, France I need to buy.

So here I am, looking for some advice (tips, suggestions) on this trip just to check that I’m not forgetting something and make the flight as comfortable as possible.
Questions:

  1. While the flight is within Schengen, I only need a flight plan for departing NL (first leg) and on the way back entering NL (last leg). Is this correct or is there still a PRN for custom/immigration due to the current state of emergency of France (NOTAM?)?
  2. For refueling on the stop-over I’m thinking of having enough cash with me. As far as I have read LFQV and LFLA accept cash, besides the known fuel cards (TOTAL, BP) which I don’t have. Or are there other means of paying for fuel; credit card?
  3. Is the route projected OK for avoiding most of the restricted/danger area’s? BTW, I’m comfortable with asking for crossing CTR’s.
  4. Anyone experience with flying VFR-over-the-top, and particular in the do’s and don’ts with this kind of flying?
  5. I have no plan B, yet. But I’m a bit struggling what it should look like and what would be the triggers to activate plan B. Any suggestions?
  6. Anything else I might have missed?

Thanks in advance.

Last Edited by CCO709 at 16 Aug 13:48
EHLE (Lelystad - NL), Netherlands

Hi CCO709,

seems like a cool trip and it always is nice to add purpose to private flying trips.

I flew in France for a bit, did a similar (if further east) routing in May on my trip to/from Carcassonne/Spain/Marrocco, so I think I can relate a bit,

Do check the AIPs of your planned stop-overs for break times. Many French airfields are ATC during “opening hours” with English speaking controllers, but revert to French only and uncontrolled during their (extensive) lunch breaks. Depending on how familiar you are with French, you may prefer the English ATC, as I did. I did not speak a single word of French except “Bonjour” during many hours of flying in France. The enroute controllers will all be happy with English.

I found that many times, even if not advertised in the AIP, you can pay for fuel with your regular credit card. I paid for AVGAS with VISA at Carcasonne, Lyon-Bron, and Nevers Fourchambault.

Expect many restricted areas to be inactive for a very relaxed flight back home on Sunday, but do expect them to be at least partially active and plan for diversions on Friday. I found the military to be quite active on France on weekdays.

VFR-over-the-top: I’d personally say always have a way out. I like flying VFR-over-the-top, as long as there is an occasional hole to get down through VMC and as long as there are no terrifying build-ups upfront. One tends to underestimate the height of cloud ahead, as well. If it looks like “Ah I just climb to 9500 ft. and I’ll be on top” – you probably won’t.

I’d say the plan B from Lelystad is to stay at home and the plan B for the homebound leg is to be flexible +/- 1 day.

Hungriger Wolf (EDHF), Germany

Just my take on it from my VFR flying from the time when I could not do this under IFR rules yet.

I would fly VFR on a flight plan from EHLE and route west of Brussels via NIK and CIV to France at anything like e.g. FL75 – FL95. The eastern part of Begium is also possible, but can be more complicated. This is a well-known route via NIK and CIV and easy to do if the weather is ok of course.

Auxerre has a nice lunch restaurant (if it is open). There is nothing to do in the area other than to eat that great lunch and to refuel. It is a good stop-over place for as long as ATC is there. When they are not there, the place is deserted and you can only pay with Total or AirBP card. Alternatives are Troyes or better even Reims-Prunay. Reims-Prunay has a fuel station, restaurant and cheap 2-star hotel. You can almost park your aircraft right next to your hotel room. In all cases, I would call ahead and announce you are coming to make sure someone is there to take your cash. Don’t plan to land there at lunch time when they are eating lunch :-)

I remember that flying VFR on top of a cloud layer was not allowed with a British pilot license as you had to have the ground in sight, but it was allowed on a Dutch license. Not sure how it works in EASA land. I assume it is allowed. Anyways, I did it many times. Just make sure that you have an escape to get down, so check the weather at your destination / alternate. Also, if no clouds are reported in a TAF, that does not always mean there are no clouds above e.g. 5000 feet. Cloud formations above 5000 feet are often omitted in METAR reports. Just be aware.

If you are ok on the radio, you should have no problems flying VFR in France. If you do have a question about some area being active, ask on the radio. Just plan your route east of Paris but that you already did. :-)

EDLE, Netherlands

Looks like a great trip

France tends to be easy for getting CAS transits (just as well since some of the airspace in the south east is horrible) but you need to plan to avoid danger and other restricted areas. The ATC is very casual, which is great, but they will also equally casually assume that you know which of these bits are active

The other thing I would say is for VMC on top. Descending through a cloud layer is by far safest over the sea. Elsewhere you need to really do your homework. Obvious I know, but…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I would recommend avoiding Charleville-Mezières: in my experience it is a dead dump at the edge of civilisation. I would rather recommend Troyes-Barberey though I’m not sure they would have MoGas available. In fact I should be glad to know of a couple of fields in North-Eastern France with MoGas available AND a restaurant, there don’t seem to be many. When looking for MoGas in France, be aware they usually call it “sans plomb”, often abbreviated SP.

If you do decide to go to LFQV, you might get in touch with the local ultralight club to obtain MoGas. Mind you, contacting them in French might much improve your chances.
ULM ARDENNES
Adresse : AERODROME de CHARLEVILLE MZS
08090 Belval
Téléphone : 0324531605
E-mail : [email protected]

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Better option might be to get AVGAS instead of MOGAS. The price of AVGAS is mostly cheaper in France than in The Netherlands. I would skip Lille.

EDLE, Netherlands

That would much increase the options, yes. It might well be my own option.
But perhaps the DA-20 is a rented plane and (for maintenance reasons) AvGas is not allowed?
BTW I am surprised to see the endurance of only 2 hours ..? Payload limitations?

Last Edited by at 16 Aug 15:36
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Thanks everyone for their contribution.

To answer some questions and suggestions.
@AeroPlus, Reims is to far, 2 hours flying from EHLE even in a straight line. The DA20 is an old plane and can do FL95, but it takes some time (about 30 min on average) to reach that altitude. So, FL75-80 is possible. Which brings me to also answer @Jan_Olieslagers’ question; the DA20 is not a rented plane, it is in a syndicate. It accepts AVGas, MOGAS, 100LL and 91LL (Rotax 912).

Empty Weight = 510 kg and MTOW = 730 kg. With 2 POB (and I’m a little bit overweight ) and luggage to be within W&B range, it can take about 37 L fuel. That will give me an endurance of about 2 hours (100kts IAS at 17 L/hr) max. So, every stop needs to be within 1,5 hours flying from the departing point. Not taking wind into account at this moment.

@Patrick, thanks for the reminder of the “lunch times” in France. I did forgot that.

If Charleville-Mezières is better to be avoided, what airport would be a better option as stop-over, in BE of FR? LFSJ Sedan Douzy or EBSH Saint-Hubert or …?

EHLE (Lelystad - NL), Netherlands

Regarding the low level restricted areas, how a look here on the day of flight.
Click Here

These AZBA charts show you which low level restricted areas are active at what time. It can really open up options for you to know if a lot of them are simply not active at the time of your flight.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

I do not know Sédan LFSJ as a pilot, the local aeroclub offer AvGas but no MoGas and they insist on cash payment, to my latest knowledge. There is however some kind of holiday resort just across the street with a quite acceptable restaurant (or was when I last visited, which has been a couple of years).

Saint Hubert is a strange place, I have never flown there. The runways are shortish, and with a “hump” in the middle. And there is intensive glider flying, with unusual procedures. I suppose it must al be very doable but the place feels like needing a bit of “getting used to”. You might well be able to get MoGas there, though.

A bit out of the way but very nice is Verviers EBTX, with no less than four kinds of fuel on tap. Glider activity, too, but very relaxed. Or nearby Spa EBSP. Very nice scenery round there. But these places would put Luxembourg on your further route, not sure if that is acceptable (I am used to having to avoid controlled airspace).

If passing Brussels on the West side, as suggested by Sjoerd @AeroPlus, I might recommend Maubeuge if it weren’t the AvGas is officially for locally based planes only (that kind of fun is not limited to Itally, apparently!). But perhaps something can be arranged by prior communication, the more south one goes the less is organised but the more can be arranged.

Very near to Maubeuge is EBCF Cerfontaine , which has AvGas on offer and a well reputed restaurant, but I have not yet flown there.

Last Edited by at 16 Aug 18:54
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium
17 Posts
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