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September trip to Greece (LGSO Syros and LGKC Kithira)

Stodge wrote:

Ideally this return coastal route (heading north) following VFR routes would go PATROKLOS – HELLINIKON – KASTELLA – EGN, because I would have thought (though I may be wrong) that the HELLINIKON – KASTELLA portion would provide the best views of Athens (the Parthenon??). But I don’t know if a request to cross the Elefsis CTR is easily given? Otherwise I imagine it’s HELLINIKON – EGN – LGMG. Have I got that right?

Yes best views of Athens Riviera including the Parthenon.

You can see this transit in this video:


Yes you can ask for HELLINIKON – Elefsis bay direct (instead of via EGN) and in most cases Elefsis (LGEL) approves their MCTR/MATZ tranzit.
It all depends on LGEL traffic.
LGEL is the equivalent of RAF Brize Norton in Greece.
It all depends on the time of day and their traffic eg. on weekends they are more calm.

So the process is the following:
As you come in the TMA you state your intentions to Athens TMA FIC 124.025 as HELLINIKON – EGN – LGMG so as to avoid discussions back and forth regarding LGEL bay transit. They are just FIC but they relay traffic info to ATC units concerned.

Then once abeam HELLINIKON and starting climbing from 500 to 1500 have ready on Box2 LGEL on 120.150 and call them.
“XXXXX abeam HELLINIKON 1500 VFR to Megara request transit Elefsis bay 1500 ft. 2nm south of Elefsis for Megara.”
Either they will tell you “approved, report xxxx” or not approved due to traffic.
Sounding assertive in such requests helps with ATC as long as you don’t f.. up later!
Then you just zig zag through Elefsis bay north of Salamis island and this sets you up basically on long final 26L for Megara.

If you get the approval by LGEL then on Box1 you just say to TMA Info. 124.025 that you just got the approval from LGEL and they will just say “roger” remain with LGEL on 120.15.
Then switch Box1 to Megara LGMG 130,875 because once you cross LGEL runway extension you must call Megara for THEIR zone entry and landing instructions.

All of the above takes place in 2~3 minutes and you must be ready for fast and confident communications with quick frequency changes.
You do the flying & comm’s others enjoy Athens views !
DO NOT enter Elefsis MCTR or Megata ATZ unless cleared to.
Left orbit in case there is VHF congestion before entering LGEL or LGMG zones.
When transiting LGAV CTR from SE to NW do not fly 1 ft. above 500’ on Athens QNH. LGAV TWR ATC are very sensitive on this citing possible TCAS RA from airliners (3.000!! above you).

Last Edited by petakas at 13 Aug 13:42
LGMG Megara, Greece

Great video Petakas – and very very helpful. What a view!

Have carefully noted your procedure as above. One thing I don’t quite get – you say you start climbing from 500 ft to 1500 ft as you approach HELLINIKON. My Skydemon states 500 feet for the whole of that VFR leg and then 1500 feet once past HELLINIKON and on the way to KASTELLA. Are you saying it’s OK to start the climb as soon as you’re outside the LGAV CTR but before you actually reach HELLlNIKON?

Regarding Megara, is it best just to call then if they don’t reply to emails/faxes? I just want to get an idea of landing fee, and parking rates for an overnight. Obviously I’ll sort out permissions etc nearer the time.

United Kingdom

You are right, I expressed it wrong. I amended above post.
You leave 500 for 1500 just at HELLENIKON (the old LGAT airport).
So as you can see 3 things happen at that moment, climb, Elefsis Contact, FIS contact to let them know you got Elefsis permission and all this while you’re at the best part of the route :-0

Megara LGMG
Just give them a phonecall (see LGMG NOTAM).
Its the quickest way (once you have sent them something in writing).
+302296027330
Tell them your name and ask them if they got you email/fax and when you will get a response.
Some times they have said to similar phone calls… ok …ok … you have the PPR, we just cannot send you today the FAX/Email …
For day transit you do not need PPR, you just go there and land.
For OVERNIGHT is when PPR is needed.
If they tell you we don’t have much space … you’ll always find space for short term parking.
Official parking spots are well apart. Convince them you’ll find a solution once there.
They usually have the PPR within 1~3 days.
Its a typical procedure where they consult the Army Aviation HQ to approve.
Reason is that while you park at a Civil apron (long term lease to CAA) you land/take off from a Military airport (the west side).
DO NOT walk out in the open talking pictures of the west side.
Well, MIL guys always want to know who and when will park overnight and I guess they check the details …
I know … it sounds …
Thats all there is to it.

Last Edited by petakas at 13 Aug 14:42
LGMG Megara, Greece

Brilliant, all noted and many thanks again. This sort of local knowledge is absolutely priceless.

United Kingdom

By the way probably a dumb question but am I right to assume the AOPA handling discounts apply to those (like myself) who are AOPA UK members (and have the card to prove it)? Or do you have to be a member of AOPA Hellas?

Apologies if it sounds silly but from experience it’s just the sort of bl**ding obvious thing that could catch you out once asked to pay the bill!

United Kingdom

Stodge wrote:

By the way probably a dumb question

Please pay the patience it deserves and read the whole page www.aopa.gr/Info
The answers to the questions you have asked so far are all in there.
Yes AOPA UK will do as long as its a current card.

I saw your (hard copy) request in Megara today on the CAA officers desk !
You ask so many questions to them, you blocked them; especially since the IT guy is on August leave.
All the CAA does is forward your request to Army.
Your request was a whole page of questions asking them like a financial offer for services.
The lady told me “why the rush ? the request is for October !”

Just send again a single request just for PPR as per LGMG NOTAM and don’t mix in there other questions.
All the other stuff you ask them is already available in www.aopa.gr/Info in paragraph about Megara LGMG.
The charges at Megara are ridiculously low, its not worth (the employee’s time in pay) to even ask them for this data !
1.63 Euro per night landing/parking (N’ register is more)
No handling, no other fees.
AVGAS is now at 3 Euro/Lt.
Its all in in the aopa page.

LGMG Megara, Greece

In Northern Europe, phone calls seem a rude imposition; emails are answered promptly. In Southern Europe (Italy, Greece) emails, especially in English, are ignored and phone calls treated in a friendly manner (irrespective of the level of English of the person answering).

BTW I consider Megara a 5 star Aerodrome in terms of friendliness, helpfulness and price. It wouldn’t occur to me to send an email unless it were specifically requested on the phone and the recipient waiting for it. The people working there are helpful and fun.

BTW There are places that BOTH answer you emails AND the phone and try to be helpful. Here I would include much of Eastern Europe (the Baltics and Poland) and the Balkans (especially Croatia, but also Serbia, and a country I am afraid/too confused to name with Skopje for a capital).

Last Edited by WhiskeyPapa at 14 Aug 17:33
Tököl LHTL

For Spain, Italy and (definitely when talking to aeroclubs) France or Germany, you should include a google translated text. Or better still forget using English completely!

Greece doesn’t expect anyone to speak Greek and they are fine with English, but they rarely reply to written comms. Phone calls work

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hi Petakas – of course I get your point, but there’s been so much talk on this and other Greek threads about significant and sometimes hiked costs etc that I wanted to check in advance. It wasn’t really a whole page of questions, just these below copied directly from my efax. The system has worked well over many previous trips in most parts of Europe but obviously not here! I’m also taking two passengers with me – one of whom is quite old and a little nervous about the trip – and I simply want to try and ensure things run relatively smoothly for them by being organised.

But sure, I’ll stick to phoning nearer the time in future!!

Can you advise me of the following costs please? 

A. The landing fee and 24 hours parking. 

B. Do we require PPR and is there a cost for this? 

C. Is it necessary to have handling?

D. We will also require AVGAS. Can you advise me if you have this (subject to NOTAM) and if possible the latest price per litre at your airport? 

United Kingdom

After looking at the opening and closing times, I cannot get LGKC to work, so the current plan is LDDU – LGIO to clear customs then onto Syros (LGSO) – Sitia Crete (LGST) – Milos (LGML) back to LGIO. Though It looks like we will have to stay in Ioannina for two nights as the following day the airport is only open from 16.30Z (19:30 local.

EGBE (COVENTRY, UK)
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