airways wrote:
I’ll repeat what I said before: during the week it’s better to plan your flight via civil airspace.
Thanks again for the tip, one for the future!
Looks like ATS dropped the ball there. Somebody wasn’t in a mood to make a coordination. I’ll repeat what I said before: during the week it’s better to plan your flight via civil airspace.
NinerEchoPapa wrote:
I climbed up to FL85 but when checking in with Beek approach they said they could only accept me at FL65. No problem. I was then handed over to Belga Radar who cleared me in to their airspace then a few minutes later told me VFR flight in Belgium is prohibited above 4500ft. This was news to me (and apparently several other people in EHMZ). Must try harder with reading the AIP’s…I was allowed to continue at FL65 for a while before being told to descend to 4500ft prior to passing through a small corner of the Brussels TMA.
Today I have received an email from the Belgian CAA (via my flying club) informing me that on this flight (almost a year ago!) I infringed the EBBL TMA at FL060, “whilst SID were in progress to FL090”, followed by “We tried to get information from Dutch ATC without success”. Attached is a questionnaire I need to fill out and send back. It doesn’t sound like they are about to take any action against me, rather they just want to do some research as to how airspace infringements happen. Either way, I am surprised to receive this email as I was definitely cleared into their airspace (as mentioned in my original post), otherwise I would’ve done a 180 and not gone anywhere near it.
Aside from filling in the questionnaire and maybe attaching my log from SkyDemon, does anybody have any ideas? Am I in trouble or are they just doing some data gathering?
On another note, if posting about this before it’s all solved is a bad idea, please let me know and I’ll duly delete!
Edit: I’ve since read at the top of the questionnaire: “Without the risk of prosecution, or consequences for the validity of your pilot license, you are kindly asked to testify anonymously, to fill in the following questionnaire, regarding the following incident”.
airways wrote:
Let me put it differently; please don’t cross the Brussels TMA at FL060, 070 or 080. Those are agreed coordination levels between different ATC-units. The req to cross the TMA 090 or above has nothing to do with IFR/VFR/RNAV but purely with separation issues. Of course when tfc load is low you can ask for lower, hence the “normally”…
Clear!
Let me put it differently; please don’t cross the Brussels TMA at FL060, 070 or 080. Those are agreed coordination levels between different ATC-units. The req to cross the TMA 090 or above has nothing to do with IFR/VFR/RNAV but purely with separation issues. Of course when tfc load is low you can ask for lower, hence the “normally”…
lionel wrote:
Sorry, misunderstood the question, I thought it was about the IFR levels for VFR flights. The “FL90 or higher to cross Brussels TMA” is in Part 2 ENR, 3.3 Area Navigation (RNAV) Routes, §2 lower airspace, remarks to routes L179, M617, M624, N872 and Y28:
Thanks a lot for the information, very interesting. Correct me if I’m wrong but this is about RNAV routes, which are basically IFR routes.
So if you are flying VFR this doesn’t matter. Or do you think it matters because you are flying on IFR levels?
“Cruising levels below FL 90 are normally not available for traffic crossing Brussels TMA.”
It’s quite strange that they are using words like “normally” in the AIP. Anyway in real world flying I never had a problem crossing on lower levels.
Of course it depends on your position and the runway they are using, because of possible conflicts with departing and arriving traffic.
I guess when you are on FL 90 you can cross more easily regardless of the runway in use etc.
jvdo wrote:
I know about the IFR levels, but why is the minimum level FL090? The table (1.7) starts much lower…
Sorry, misunderstood the question, I thought it was about the IFR levels for VFR flights. The “FL90 or higher to cross Brussels TMA” is in Part 2 ENR, 3.3 Area Navigation (RNAV) Routes, §2 lower airspace, remarks to routes L179, M617, M624, N872 and Y28:
Cruising levels below FL90 are normally not available for traffic crossing Brussels TMA.
airways wrote:
Minimum level to cross Brussels TMA is FL090. Plan for it, ask for lower if needed.
lionel wrote:
VFR flights operated in controlled airspace shall select cruising levels from those to be used by IFR flights as specified in ENR 1.7, unless instructed otherwise by ATC or as indicated in the AIP.
I know about the IFR levels, but why is the minimum level FL090? The table (1.7) starts much lower…
jvdo wrote:
Interesting, could you tell me where exactly?
Part 2 ENR, 1.2 Visual Flight Rules, §1.5 VFR Cruising Levels, ¶2:
VFR flights operated in controlled airspace shall select cruising levels from those to be used by IFR flights as specified in ENR 1.7, unless instructed otherwise by ATC or as indicated in the AIP.
airways wrote:
It’s in the AIP.
Interesting, could you tell me where exactly?
I cannot find it.
