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Turboprop (or other similar performance non-turbofan aircraft) - when to go VFR rather than IFR in Europe

I’m back to the UK and France, with a turboprop and am mostly going everywhere IFR due to wanting to quickly get above 2500 feet in Southern England. For my trips outside the UK, I’m not sure what I should be expecting to be given from ATC. I’ve recently been spoiled by knowing I’m fine up to 18,000 feet VFR in the US.

I’m fine to go IFR but am trying to figure out what I can expect to get in terms of altitudes if I go VFR in France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland… I’ve found much of what I’ve read around this issue to be very unpressurized piston oriented, not really applying to what I’m flying now. Some of the guidance around what to expect about being cleared into the upper bit of the airspace which should technically be available to VFR traffic seems potentially incorrect but I haven’t tested it.

For those operating TBMs, Piper Jetprops, Meridians, PC12s or King Airs, what kind of flight profiles are achievable in Europe flying if you want to opt out of the IFR system?

thanks,
patrick

EGTF, LFMD

Patrick, broadly speaking, almost no turboprop in Europe tries to fly high altitude VFR. Flying that sort of aircraft is far easier in Europe IFR unless you are flying very low level.

EGTK Oxford

Thanks, I was wondering if there is higher level VFR flying.
I ran into this Belgian guy who regularly parks his PC12 at a glider field in the South of France. I was trying to figure out if he might be going VFR enroute…
For some hops the teens would be fine. I don’t need to get high like you do in the Mustang, in order to obtain fuel burn/distance efficiency

Last Edited by Patrick_K at 14 Mar 00:46
EGTF, LFMD

In Poland FL195 is highest for VFR. Flying higher would require permission before flight.

For other countries one would have to check AIP. I expect rules to be similar.

LPFR, Poland

loco wrote:

In Poland FL195 is highest for VFR. Flying higher would require permission before flight.

For other countries one would have to check AIP. I expect rules to be similar.

It’s in SERA and indeed the international Rules of the Air (*) so it would be exceptional if a country didn’t have that restriction.

( * ) The international Rules of the Air has FL200 has limit, but as that is not a VFR cruising altitude, the rule is in practise the same as in SERA.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 14 Mar 07:16
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

It’s a good Q. I don’t have a TP but have spoken to many owners.

Avoiding the > 2T route charges is one reason to do it.

In France there is a block over a large area on VFR traffic above FL115. And during my VFR days I was never once able to get a clearance above FL115 anywhere in France. I have been told by one King Air owner that this ban was put in place because they had loads of King Airs etc at FL195 (above that it is Class A, generally, I think) avoiding the IFR charges.

Switzerland did not allow VFR in their Class C, so one ended up crossing the Alps at FL119 or some such, 1000ft above the peaks

There is a lot of “independent ATC policies” i.e. not notamed or in the AIP where they ban VFR in their area. IMHO this is the biggest issue, and you can’t usually tell you are going to come up against it.

In the former communist bloc one can do VFR quite high. A lot of traffic pops up on FR24, 7000 squawk, at FL150 etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Patrick_K wrote:

Thanks, I was wondering if there is higher level VFR flying.

VFR is limited by airclass classification and local regulations. In the UK there is quite a bit of class A that you need to keep out of, and VFR is often not welcome in class D (TMA, CTR) either.

AFAIK class A starts at FL195 so you’ll need to be IFR above that.

In France class D starts at FL 115 so you need a clearance above that. In the airspace controlled by Paris, VFR is not accepted above FL115. Outside that airspace you can fly VFR up to FL195.

In Belgium, Germany and Scandinavia I believe you can fly VFR up to FL195. In The Netherlands there is quite a bit of class A airspace that forces VFR to remain low. That is also the case in Italy. Coastwise in Croatia ATC will want you real low along published VFR routes.

LFPT, LFPN

I have flown many times down the Adriatic at FL100, once at FL140 over the Croatian coast. Maybe a recent charge to force the VFR routes like ADRIA1? They never used to care about them at all. In Sep 2015 I flew VFR down there at various levels, at a few thousand feet.

However to try to address the thread title, the usual reasons for going VFR are

  • avoiding route charges (many TP owners say these are irrelevant but clearly not all)
  • get a faster departure at some busy airport
  • get a faster arrival at some busy airport (I recently saved ~ 30 mins getting into Le Touquet by cancelling IFR, due to people in the hold)

and all of these are potentially applicable to any size aircraft, although the last two points above will tend to result in reduced separation rules.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In the King Air we do VFR trips for short distances, particularly if the IFR routing overhead is significant, e.g. Gamston to Fairoaks.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Aviathor wrote:

In the UK ….VFR is often not welcome in class D (TMA, CTR) either.

If it is still true, this completely unacceptable, and the UK CAA has introduced a reporting mechanism to prevent it.

Please may I beg people to use it every time access to Class D is refused. The CAA won’t take action every time, but they will if a pattern emerges, which is why it is important to report every occurrence.

As the amount of Class D increases, it is vital to ensure that VFR is not squeezed out. The controllers have a legal duty to provide access to all.

EGKB Biggin Hill
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