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UK CAA allows ab initio training on Annex 2 (and EASA bans it April 2018, and Annex 2 hours to no longer count towards EASA licenses?) - merged

According to this, this is now possible in the UK.

Clearly the actual flying needs to be in VMC, even if the student is under the hood.

How are the various IMCR requirements done? The aircraft needs a VOR and an ILS receiver – is that correct? Are ADF procedures a required part of the IMCR?

Last Edited by Peter at 10 Jan 13:57
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Quote Are ADF procedures a required part of the IMCR?

According to the standards document “Holding is not an IMC rating test requirement, however if holding is required by ATC, then an examiner will assess it”. But that relies you getting lucky and not being required to do hold at any part during your training. Other than that, two approaches have to be demonstrated, and you could use ILS, LLZ or GPS where they exist. But I do my IMC revalidations at Cambridge and 1) I often get put in a hold (I wonder if my CFI put in a call to them beforehand) 2) If the wind makes runway 23 unsuitable, then you only have the NDB05 approach.

So you’d have to be lucky, or train at a place that allows you not to ever have to use an NDB (so that means a VOR holding pattern I suppose), and would legally (not practically) prevent you from utilising NDB holds or approaches anywhere else one may fly.

and would legally (not practically) prevent you from utilising NDB holds or approaches anywhere else one may fly.

Is there really a “restricted IMCR” like that?

Practically, I wonder how many LAA types will have any meaningful combination of the avionics.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

No restricted IMCr, so I’d expect any aircraft used for training to have the basic ADF + ILS + DME kit.

Practically, I wonder how many LAA types will have any meaningful combination of the avionics.

I am sure some of the RV’s I have seen have one or two PFD’s, and very modern looking kit, though I wonder how many include IFR certified GPS, ADF and DME. After all, part of their appeal is lightweight design. Then again, there’s plenty of CofA planes around which don’t have meaningful combinations of working avionics ;-) I have never flown an LAA aircraft, but with the right kit I don’t see why they shouldn’t be able to fly IMC with the restrictions placed on us all depending on the POH, the avionics and aircraft performance and capabilities.

Many LAA aircrafts have an IFR certified GPS of some sort. ADF and DME are pretty rare though. When you combines a certified GPS with a modern experimental EFIS (with integrated autopilot) like the ones from Dynon, Garmin, Advanced Flight Systems, GRT or MGL avionics, you get a plane with tremendous capabilities in terms of situation awareness

Ukraine

Of course I may be totally wrong here and I can’t be bothered to look it up but the minimum equipment required for an IMCR is minimum. A vor or adf meet those requirements.

As part if the requirements you have to demonstrate a pilot interpreted and a non pilot interpretated approach.

I know of people who are more than happy to train someone in a permit aircraft and sadly many of them have far better nav kit than your flying school spam cam

The IMC rating only demands training and testing in two types of approach. So, in principle you could do a SRA and a QGH procedure (if you could find one) using nothing more than a com radio.

So you’re probably more limited by what’s available. A localiser and a VOR approach that didn’t specify DME would be a possibility.

KHWD- Hayward California; EGTN Enstone Oxfordshire, United States

Surely anybody doing their IMCR that way (or at all in a homebuilt) is going to have loads of “fun” using it in real life.

Asking for an IAP does not (in the UK) quite amount to a declaration of being in IMC, but in the right met conditions it is going to be rather incriminating.

Still, in the UK, anything goes. You can depart “VFR” into OVC002 from any Class G airport, or arrive “VFR” on a “long final” in the same conditions.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

But I do my IMC revalidations at Cambridge and 1) I often get put in a hold (I wonder if my CFI put in a call to them beforehand) 2) If the wind makes runway 23 unsuitable, then you only have the NDB05 approach.

I did my initial IMC test at Cambridge on a 05 day, which was unfortunate since the NDB05 was the approach which was signed off in my logbook by my instructor.

On that occasion ATC let me fly down the ILS the wrong way. Made a total mess of it too.. taking off on 05 and being vectored straight onto the 23 ILS was a bit fraught!

On the bright side, no hold required :).

It’s an interesting question. (Actually there are quite a few questions in this thread).
I am one of the owners who have an LAA a/c with EFIS. It will soon also have a GNS430W and coupled auto pilot but does not have ADF or DME.
I know for certain that I can get my lapsed IMCR re-instated using my aeroplane but I do not know what, if any, equipment I might be lacking.
I am certainly looking forward to the day that keeps getting promised that means I will legally be allowed to fly IMC in my a/c.

Forever learning
EGTB
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