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UK Listening squawks

It reduces the mayhem which a totally lost infringer can do, because they can call him up.

It doesn’t stop anybody doing a bust because they are unlikely to call you until you cross the boundary (this probably depends on how busy the ATCO is, but in any case he won’t get a CAIT alert until you cross).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There’s some evidence that CAIT flags people before they infringe.

Andreas IOM

Peter wrote:

It doesn’t stop anybody doing a bust because they are unlikely to call you until you cross the boundary (this probably depends on how busy the ATCO is, but in any case he won’t get a CAIT alert until you cross).

Quite a few units do use it proactively to prevent a bust. For example, Solent is very quick to make defensive calls. I’ve been alerted before infringing Stansted (still had RPS on :roll:).

It is definitely a protective measure to both prevent and mitigate infringements. Even if it doesn’t prevent an infringement, it is very likely to be the difference between a letter and other action, such as a GASCo course. Surely it’s worth doing even for just that reason?

But I have also had it used when I am outside CAS. For example, Farnborough have used it several times because they have jet traffic which is in conflict and want to bring me into the known environment and Gatwick once used it to thank me for moving out of the way of known traffic OCAS (they addressed me as “Timothy” not “G-ILZZ” mind you, so I guess it was someone I knew!)

I would very strongly recommend using Listening Squawk/FMC when anywhere near CAS. It does no harm and potentially can do a lot of good.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

Quite a few units do use it proactively to prevent a bust. For example, Solent is very quick to make defensive calls. I’ve been alerted before infringing Stansted (still had RPS on :roll:).

What reason do you have for setting the RPS given to you by some Units? Why not ignore it and fly by the QNH of the nearest civil airport, as everywhere else?

Last Edited by boscomantico at 19 Nov 12:44
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Timothy wrote:

It is definitely a protective measure to both prevent and mitigate infringements. Even if it doesn’t prevent an infringement, it is very likely to be the difference between a letter and other action, such as a GASCo course. Surely it’s worth doing even for just that reason?

Surely you would be better off actually talking to the unit concerned so they know your intentions? The two examples you quote (Solent and Farnborough) should want you to talk to them. If they dont want you talking to them, then either they aren’t employing enough controllers to manage their airspace properly or there is something wrong with their procedures IMHO. No, Im sorry, but I see listening squawks as another way for the authorities to divide Air traffic to keep GA out of controlled airspace and to avoid doing what they should be doing, which is to provide a proper joined up FIS system.

Regards, SD..

Why not ignore it and fly by the QNH of the nearest civil airport, as everywhere else?

That is what I do, unless the unit wants to know my altitude on that altimeter setting. Not sure if that’s ever happened though. For example London Control assigns you the RPS when clearing you to descent below CAS.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I don’t think that is an “assignment”, since, as soon as you get OCAS, they will drop you anyway. It’s more an Information I would ignore straight away.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

What reason do you have for setting the RPS given to you by some Units?

I was in a very rapid descent from FL250 under the control of the Military. They (in their normal way) gave the RPS once cleared through the TL and I forgot to change it to the London QNH.

skydriller wrote:

Surely you would be better off actually talking to the unit concerned so they know your intentions? The two examples you quote (Solent and Farnborough) should want you to talk to them.

I don’t agree. Why use the airtime? I’d rather chat to my pax or whatever. Similarly, they have plenty of other people to talk to. Then, if they want me, they know where to find me. I spend most of my time when flying in England on an FMC and it works very well for me. Chacun à son goût, but it has been shown to reduce the likelihood and impact of infringements and is pretty low maintenance, why not?

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

I was in a very rapid descent from FL250 under the control of the Military. They (in their normal way) gave the RPS once cleared through the TL and I forgot to change it to the London QNH.

I understand this can happen, but that’s precisely why I would never set it on my altimeter, even if passed on to me. I understand RPS is never used as a setting for an assigned altitude in controlled airspace, but only given to aircraft that are OCAS, or about to go OCAS.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

I understand this can happen, but that’s precisely why I would never set it on my altimeter, even if passed on to me. I understand RPS is never used as a setting for an assigned altitude in controlled airspace, but only given to aircraft that are OCAS, or about to go OCAS.

I agree that RPS should not be used, but if it’s all you’ve got…

If I had been more focussed, I probably would have got the Stansted QNH from ATIS, but I was in a rapid descent both because I had to get under controlled airspace and I had a hypoxic passenger.

The point being, though, that I made a mistake and Essex picked it up precisely because I was on the Listening Squawk/TMC, which was where we started.

EGKB Biggin Hill
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