There is no one size fits all on this. Aircraft per aircraft. Some years ago we were trying to do ski flying with Eurostar. Snow was that consistency we were not able to accelerate the aircraft to proper speed to raise the nose ski. Elevator up, elevator neutral, any position in between. Runway was long enough to experiment. At the end the proper technique was to begin take-off roll with flaps in landing position. When top of acceleration was reached (and still not anywhere near the stall speed), the flaps were closed to take-off position and at the same time elevator up – moment from closing flaps helped a lot. This allows nose wheel (ski in this case) to be taken out of the snow and the take-off roll to continue to Vr speed.
Wouldn’t it have been easier to just clear a strip of say 250 × 5 meters? Or did you not have any equipment to do that?
Very interesting post, @Pilot_DAR
I was taught to go “straight” on the runway and at Vr pull right back suddenly. I don’t do it quite so suddenly myself, but a couple of years ago flew with another pilot (RHS in my TB20) who did do exactly that: pulled up suddenly at a given IAS. It was just something I noticed.
Also you starting with fully up elevator is going to increase the takeoff roll on tarmac. It won’t deliver the “max perf” takeoff figure.
boscomantico wrote:
Wouldn’t it have been easier to just clear a strip of say 250 × 5 meters? Or did you not have any equipment to do that?
we didn´t have anything. And we didn´t want to do it anyway. the goal of the day was to fly on skies….
regarding Vr – I guess small airplanes are flying because they want, not because reaching Vr…teaching Vr in PPL is not the best think to do in my eyes
Peter wrote:
I was taught to go “straight” on the runway and at Vr pull right back suddenly. I don’t do it quite so suddenly myself, but a couple of years ago flew with another pilot (RHS in my TB20) who did do exactly that: pulled up suddenly at a given IAS. It was just something I noticed.
Another example of airliner/jet techniques being applied to light aircraft. Why keep a single engined aircraft on the ground until an arbitrary speed then yank it off?
I’m just a gash ppl but I fly from PA18 to CE525, I’ve been doing it for a while and I think it’s a nonsense. Others such as What Next who are proper instructors and jet pilots have more experience and will have an opinion I’m sure.
Scenic_Flyer wrote:
Has anyone here ever been told not to use max up elevator on takeoff from soft/short fields?
Short answer: follow the AFM / operator’s procedures for your aircraft.
But yes on short field take-off we do not use max up elevator precisely for this reason: added drag. But on soft field take-offs we do use max up elevator.
There is a huge difference between the scenario of a soft field versus a short field… a soft & short field is the worst of two evils and you have to do some good decisionmaking around that one!
However mostly you end up with one of the two and you need to apply the correct technique per AFM/Operator’s procedures.
looking at ASI to pull at the right moment for GA aircaft is simply wrong application of airliners technique to the GA. but there is one more extrem – I know a student pilot, who was focusing on ASI (instead of looking outside the aircraft) during flare to make sure he is touching down at correct speed…
sometimes students can become remarkably creative :-)
this student was too creative. to the point the instructor recommend him to quit the training…
Neil wrote:
Why keep a single engined aircraft on the ground until an arbitrary speed then yank it off?
There is a good reason for everything. It would go beyond the scope of this topic to discuss that here in detail. The short version: “My” FTO does not train bush pilots (there is no bush to be found within a radius of 2000NM) and we do not train homebuilders either, who will fly STOL airplanes out of their muddy back garden. 90 percent of our students – job situation permitting – will “operate” either a Boeing or an Airbus less than 200 hours from their first trial flight. 90 percent of those 90 percent will never touch the controls of a single engine piston aircraft again after they fish their license out of their mailbox (simply because pay and working conditions of an airline pilot in the year 2016 do not leave any room for that).
Additionally, we operate from an international airport which has a 3.500 × 60m concrete runway. We can be happy that they still let us depart and land in the small gaps between airliners. Every single takeoff and landing clearance we get contains the phrase “caution wake turbulence of just departed/landed Boeing/Airbus/Embraer”. Letting a C152/Pa28/Pa44 “fly itself” off the runway is not the smartest thing to do under those circumstances. Also, not having at least one eye on the ASI during landing can get you into some trouble easily.
And no. Aircraft are not “yanked” off the ground at Vr (ever seen or felt that happen in an airliner?). One rotates them at an assigned rate and will get the smoothest of transitions from ground to air… With the exception – pointed out by Pilot DAR – of the T-tailed Pipers which will jump into the air as soon as the yoke is pulled back. But this is purely for the fun and entertainment of us, otherwise bored to death, procedural ATPL instructors 
