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VFR flight planning issues

Meanwhile he was given standard VFR routing and his coordinates were ignored.

This is an interesting thread on what ATC actually see of your flight plan. It is IFR but probably it is the same for VFR.

I have asked in ATC forums years ago whether they can see the filed route and got many different replies. It varies according to what software has been paid for, apparently. Some will plot all ICAO-valid waypoint formats but it seems very rare.

I only recently made a discovery in skydemon. 99% of users have IFR waypoints turned off. When they file an FP (say Shoreham to jersey) it will use coordinates.

Given UK PPL training, that is expected

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

All the applications you mention (SkyDemon, Autorouter etc.) do the addressing and they do it according to the AIPs, although there may of course be mistakes. The pilot need not do any addressing unless for some reason they need to send the flight plan to an additional address.

NO. They do NOT. In the past the apps distributed FPLs not in accordance with AIP ENR 1.11!!! That was the reason we accept FPL from KBLIHAEX only as a fax to be sure, that app will not distribute FPL to any AFTN addresses.

LZIB

Peter wrote:

For example, thanks to the UK AFPEX system, I have my own personal AFTN address. I haven’t checked that mailbox for a few months…

This raises an interesting point. If I file using AFPEX at EOBT-60 am I expected to keep monitoring the mailbox? I will not normally be sitting in front of a computer at that time. As Bosco recommends, I include my telephone number in field 18 so that I am contactable. However, as nobody expects a pilot to have an AFTN address, I wonder if foreign recipients of the flight plan might be more likely to respond via AFTN thinking that someone is always there rather than picking up the telephone.

EGTT, The London FIR

If there is a phone nmbr and FPL was not recieved from KBLIHAEX, and there is a problem with the FPL, normally I contact the pilot.

LZIB

Great to know – thank you Hunnicat.

EGTT, The London FIR

This raises an interesting point. If I file using AFPEX at EOBT-60 am I expected to keep monitoring the mailbox?

Yes

The person at the other end will assume you are an ARO which is H24 staffed.

It is a big mistake of AFPEX to not provide an “AFTN2EMAIL” feature. I asked them about this way back, 2009 I think… and gave them these exact reasons. I even told them that email is free! (NATS cannot embark on any project unless there is a financial case for it, and the financial case for AFPEX was the huge salary saving by closing the FBUs). I visited the unit involved at Swanwick when writing this.

However I think AFPEX is now regarded as pretty well dead, with most people having moved to other methods. Due to the “€0.34 per line of code written” contract with Compsoft in Germany who produced the code and the resulting Java client, one cannot use AFPEX except from a windows client – with some obscure exceptions. Nobody in NATS wants to get involved now.

There is a parallel discussion as to why the AFTN rarely works for PPR/PNR purposes. I have tested that, too. It seems to be job demarcation in AROs.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hunnicat wrote:

NO. They do NOT. In the past the apps distributed FPLs not in accordance with AIP ENR 1.11!!! That was the reason we accept FPL from KBLIHAEX only as a fax to be sure, that app will not distribute FPL to any AFTN addresses.

I just tried a flight from ESMS to LZTT in Autorouter. Mixed VFR/IFR with VFR departure, a switch to IFR in Poland and a VFR arrival. The addressing was

EDDXYIYR EDDZZPZX EDWWZFZX EPZZTFXX EPZZTGXX EPZZVVXX ESAAZFZX ESMSZPZX ETJAYVYX EUCBZMFP EUCHZMFP LZBBZFZX LZIBZPZX LZTTZTZX

Which, as far as I can make out from the AIPs, is the correct addressing. (Possibly EDDZZPZX is redundant.)

I admit to not having tried this with SkyDemon.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Did the system send the FPL to all addresses at the same time or did use re-addressing function recommended by Eurocontrol? If the system sends FPL at the smae time to all addresses, it can happen that IFPS makes some changes in the route but all the other units will have the “old” FPL. If you can, please try pure VFR. Mixed FPLs are little bit different. It is true that it can depends on the application. VFR flights and Y/Z – it is very challenging issue around Europe. I have no idea how those apps are working, only I can say is, that I can collect “wrong” FPLs and share with you :-)

Last Edited by Hunnicat at 16 Jun 10:01
LZIB

LZIB

Peter wrote:

one cannot use AFPEX except from a windows client – with some obscure exceptions.

Full disclosure… I use AFPEX on a Mac. I don’t think they’re obscure.

EGTT, The London FIR
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