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VFR only aircraft

Hi!

Got another (probably) silly question.
After flying VFR a PA28-161 (dual gns-430, Avidyne Glass cockpit, backup instruments with own battery power, NO DME) I’ve noticed that it says VFR flights only.
Thinking about renting at a couple of other places and while a/c are IFR legal, on both planes GPS (KLN-89) are not – “GPS not approved for IFR navigation” and “GPS limited to VFR flight only”.

Obviously, the question is why? In all of the above.
No DME – I get it. As DME is mandatory for IFR flights in UK in controlled airspace (AIP GEN 1.5 section 5), that might be the reason. Although I’ve seen PA28-161 in Germany just like this one and it did not have that limitations.
What about the other two? KLN 89B theoretically can even be flown in airways…
What am I missing.

Thanks!

Alex.

EGTR

arj1 wrote:

After flying VFR a PA28-161 (dual gns-430, Avidyne Glass cockpit, backup instruments with own battery power, NO DME) I’ve noticed that it says VFR flights only.
Thinking about renting at a couple of other places and while a/c are IFR legal, on both planes GPS (KLN-89) are not – “GPS not approved for IFR navigation” and “GPS limited to VFR flight only”.

Obviously, the question is why? In all of the above.

It’s not sufficient that the avionics boxes are TSO’d or otherwise satisfies IFR requirements — the installation of the boxes must also be approved. In recent years I would say that all GPS boxes come with an STC which includes explicit IFR approval. But many early GPS installations without STC’s were subject to the whim of regulators for their installation approvals. There were many limitations stemming from an unfamiliarity with GPS equipment which is not present today.

Why the PA28 is placarded VFR only is impossible to say without knowing what approvals, if any, the installed equipment has.

But the lack of DME can’t be it. The UK AIP may state that DMEs are mandatory, but there is no legal basis for that. All such requirements are regulated by the EU and not by individual countries. There is no requirement for a DME in part-NCO. The UK and other countries may have particular requirements on transponders and RNAV equipment, but in all those cases there is an EU regulation that either includes the requirement or delegates to the invidual country to decide. Not so for DME.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The flying club may not be updating the database?

Enstone (EGTN), Oxford (EGTK)

RobertL18C wrote:

The flying club may not be updating the database?

Well, they never do it anyway! ;)
But, some a/c are IFR, some not.

EGTR

Usually the VFR only restriction is because the installation has not been done IAW the TSO……. the reason is owners who don’t understand what they are buying and go for the cheapest installation and to get the job the installers cut corners.

Last Edited by A_and_C at 28 Sep 22:22

Usually that sort of sticker wording comes from lazy AD compliance or cutting corners on installations, there is an AD for KLN89B with "GPS for VFR only” instead of updating database or source code, maybe that is where it comes from?

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Sep 22:50
ESSEX, United Kingdom

I reckon the reasons for the placard might be

  • owner/operator stupidity (trying to stop people flying in cloud)
  • CAA stupidity (my new 2002 TB20 had the KLN94 limited to VFR because the CAA inspector said “it is a VFR only GPS”!)
  • a VFR-only GPS installed in the panel (see above; the KLN89B has a “VFR” config option which blocks the display of approaches etc and this may have been incorrectly set)
  • IFR GPS installed without an AFMS (very common but few people would notice such an issue)
  • GPS annunciators required by STC not installed
  • GPS database not updated (debatable)
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

On our club DA40 (2004) Diamond printed on the instrument panel that this aircraft is certified for flights in vfr day , vfr night and IFR with the appropriate equipment.
The aircraft has standard steam guages and a Garmin 430. The approriate equipment listed for IFR in the aircraft’s flight manual includes a 2nd VHF radio and pitot heat. The a/c manual came with the aircraft and has never been updated so no STC’s for more modern equipment are included (if there are any) part NCO I believe no longer calls for a second vhf radio and to fly IFR in France you need a mode S transponder. Which do you follow?

France

gallois wrote:

The aircraft has standard steam guages and a Garmin 430. The approriate equipment listed for IFR in the aircraft’s flight manual includes a 2nd VHF radio and pitot heat. The a/c manual came with the aircraft and has never been updated so no STC’s for more modern equipment are included (if there are any) part NCO I believe no longer calls for a second vhf radio and to fly IFR in France you need a mode S transponder. Which do you follow?

If the requirement for the second radio is in the limitations section of the AFM or in the type certificate, then you have to have the second radio. Otherwise not.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Thanks @Airborne Again I’ll check which section of the AFM the additional equipment is listed in.

France
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