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VFR Take-off at EDMS today ...

Today I visited Avionik Straubing at the Straubing Airport (EDMS) to install my exchange autopilot DFC90 and to remove, clean and re-install the pitch servo of my SR22-G2 “G-YORC”.

When I flew there from Landshut (EDML), only a 12 minute flight in the SR22, it was blue sky, no cloud, no fog, bright sun… I would have sworn on the Bible that it would stay like this until sunset.

One hour after my arrival the EDMS airport was covered with a thick layer of fog with a ceiling of less than 100 ft, the temperature fell to -3 C and the there was less than 1 km visibility. Me and some other guys who were there to pick up their aircraft from the shop felt trapped. Now EDMS normally is an IFR airport with ICAO departure standards of 550 m RVR, which is not measured anyway, so an IFR departure would have been possible. Unfortunately (and due to some bad decisions by DFS) the IFR procedures are suspended for the time beeing (that’s another interesting story …)

After refuelling the aircraft I saw a little blue through a small hole, but only for some seconds. It was obvious that it was a layer of 500 feet maximum thickness

Would you go?

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 17 Dec 20:57

Would you go?

Depends who looks.

EDDS - Stuttgart

Depends who looks.

EDXQ

There are two questions. Is it safe to go? Is it OK from a regulatory perspective?

EGTK Oxford

Well, if you make the assumption that there will be no other aircraft inside that fog layer, then it’s probably just as safe as the IFR departure …. but of course it’s clearly illegal

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 17 Dec 21:12

The practical risk is just the risk of an engine failure, relative to what sort of terrain is down there. I would do this as an IFR departure, no problem. Just need to see enough of the runway to make sure there is nobody else on it (basically the whole length). The chances of a mid-air are probably zero, in weather like this. Also I have the active TCAS, which sees transponding aircraft only, but here in the UK almost none of the nontransponding crowd is flying in anything remotely resembling bad wx.

The legal risk for Germany is according to who is watching and whether they like you or not. From what I read here of Germany, I would not try it

In the UK, it happens all the time at Class G airfields. Technically I suppose you will be illegal if the nearby cloudbase is below 500ft because of the requirement to be > 500ft above people and man-made objects, but this is (obviously) exempted for takeoffs and landings, and nobody can prove what the cloudbase was a couple of miles away. I have never heard of any enforcement.

At Class D UK airports you can’t do it because they have VFR minima – typically 1200-1500ft min cloudbase, etc. Same in France, IME – got stuck at Biarrits for 3 days in 2003 with 1000ft cloudbase (their minima was 1200ft). They won’t give you the taxi clearance.

In the USA there are clearer rules and there has been some enforcement, but it did need witnesses.

Last Edited by Peter at 17 Dec 22:17
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Unfortunately (and due to some bad decisions by DFS) the IFR procedures are suspended for the time beeing (that’s another interesting story …)

Care to tell the story as I am due to pick up my plane from there as well?

Thanks.

RXH
EDML - Landshut, Munich / Bavaria

I am a regular commercial jet passenger and I often whinge to myself when you are pretty sure its clear blue skies above 300ft AGL (take Heathrow last week), but I remind myself its not the ability to take off that counts, its being able to land safely. Annoying though :-( To answer your question, I’d have probably stayed on the ground myself, but I have a less capable plane than yourselves and I wonder if I would have a different view with better equipment.

I’m not familiar with the airport and thus wonder a few things.

You mention IFR procedures being suspended, does this mean the airport and ATS are not permitted to deal with IFR traffic, or is it merely SIDs and Approaches that can not be utilised? Could a non standard IFR departure be used?

Assuming ATC could give you a non standard IFR departure (presumably within controlled airspace), I would assess the visibility based upon the lights on the runway and then make a decision from there.

United Kingdom

You mention IFR procedures being suspended, does this mean the airport and ATS are not permitted to deal with IFR traffic, or is it merely SIDs and Approaches that can not be utilised?

The relevant NOTAM reads like this:

C4478/13 NOTAMN
Q) EDMM/QPIAU/I/B/A/000/999/
A) EDMS B) 1312120001 C) 1403122359
E) DUE TO LACK OF FLIGHT INSPECTION ALL IFR APCH PROCEDURES TEMPO
SUSPENDED.

I read this as if only the approaches are suspended, not the SIDs. Especially because there are other NOTAMs referring to changes of these SIDs. Furthermore, low visibility procedures at EDMS permit departures down to 250m visiblity, operator limitations permitting of course.

Could a non standard IFR departure be used?

Theoretically yes.

EDDS - Stuttgart
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