On top of all the excellent discussions already held here on this forum with regard to PBN, this may help page 17 overview on the link below:
[ Local copy ]
Page 21 table is also very interesting, as well as the avionics survey results from page 18…
The problem is that the whole raison d’etre of the unix hackers programmers at Eurocontrol is to create the most complex possible solution for every problem (regardless of whether it exists or not), so you have to read their documents in that spirit. Even Eric Sivel (once deputy head of EASA) said to me, about 10 years ago, that when EASA produces a 1000 page document, Eurocontrol produces 10000 pages and you need a trolley to move it.
Peter wrote:
unless you want the autopilot to fly arcs, holding patterns, etc.
That is exactly what I would want it to do. And all the other things Timothy has listed. It’s great, I have it and I won’t do without it anymore. Sorry, but the statement above sounds like sour grapes.
AlexTB20 wrote:
It’s very expensive indeed, total price for 2 Garmin units, rewiring, etc. at Straubing is about 22,000 EUR.
WHAT? That can not be true or it is a LOT more than just upgrading. The upgrade of the box is about 4000 Euros each I understand and then all that needs to be done for the WAAS capability is the change of antennas which come with the upgrade. I did my change with a bigger project but the difference when I decided late on to upgrade my 430 to W was about 4500 Euros all in. By all means get a 2nd offer or some more. Or what else is included in this?
I don’t know about the Sandel 3308, but if it works like a normal HSI then it should be able to do what it needs. To get GPSS on your 60-2 you will need the converter I indicated to you earlier and wire that in between the GNS’s and the AP, the EHSI does nothing else in that setup than display, it will get the new heading value from the converter too. That is it. Yes, you can upgrade only the 530 for the time being as well and keep the 430 non waas but then you loose the crossfeed capability and some functions. I am also not sure about the database subscriptions if they are not the same.
Peter wrote:
On the topic of this thread, the WAAS upgrade to a GNS box gives you mainly LPV (if the autopilot is correctly wired up), and some small things which I am sure others will remember (more waypoints can be loaded into the route?). And maybe better connectivity with Garmin Pilot or Foreflight because the firmware is more recent. Does the database contain more detail e.g. DME arcs, holding patterns, etc?
Yes to the latter. If a holding is in a procedure, the AP with GPSS will fly that hold. One of the bits I love about it. With the GNS boxes, the original ones have not enough memory to have all the waypoints todays approaches have so you will often get cleared to a position your GPS does not know, particularly in Germany. The W boxes have all those in. They also load much faster, they are much more capable even if they look the same. LPV will get a lot more approaches in the very near future too.
Even VFR, GPSS is a VERY nice thing to have. I have all the waypoints for ZRH’s VFR deps and arrivals stored as user waypoints and program them. I can literally fly the whole arrivals and departures fully automated. Someone even programmed the entry to base point in so we can literally fly automated until that point. No fiddling with tracks, hands off. Like in an Airbus or Boeing.
The one question is, do you want to upgrade the existing boxes or sell them (they still make 4000 Euros each or so) and invest in GTN’s who have all this in and are the better boxes.
Sorry, but the statement above sounds like sour grapes.
If I costed out every time I had to fly a hold, or a DME arc, against the cost of a WAAS installation, it would come out at 4 figures per procedure 
On top of that, unless you are doing a plug-in replacement (a GND → GNS W, or a GNS → IFD) you are looking at a sizeable job, with considerable potential for issues.
So a bit of reality is worth exercising, for those who don’t have a WAAS GPS.
What I would find most useful by far is a rapid flight plan entry, with a keypad / a rapid knob interface (the IFD boxes were much slicker than the Garmins when I looked at them ~ 2 years ago) / wireless transfer from a file on a phone / voice.
Peter I don’t see the added value of your personal comment or observation contributing to the topic discussion. PBN is an ICAO implementation doc 9613
The problem is that the whole raison d’etre of the unix hackers programmers at Eurocontrol is to create the most complex possible solution for every problem (regardless of whether it exists or not), so you have to read their documents in that spirit. Even Eric Sivel (once deputy head of EASA) said to me, about 10 years ago, that when EASA produces a 1000 page document, Eurocontrol produces 10000 pages and you need a trolley to move it.
Probably caused by this, coupled with my tendency to be anti establishment
Peter wrote:
What I would find most useful by far is a rapid flight plan entry, with a keypad / a rapid knob interface (the IFD boxes were much slicker than the Garmins when I looked at them ~ 2 years ago) / wireless transfer from a file on a phone / voice.
Very true indeed.
GTNs have very rapid manual FPL entry. The relatively cheap addition of Flightstream makes it almost completely automatic and transparent.
