Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Jeppesen Mobile Flite Deck VFR / MFDVFR / Foreflight Mobile

Jeppesen VFR charts are generally accepted as correct. If I bust an airspace that is not on my map, I would much rather show that it was a Jeppesen map that was incorrect than a SkyDemon map.

I am not sure I would tour around Europe VFR with just SkyDemon although it appears to be a fine product (and I have purchased a license).

for about €300 you get the "real printed" Jepp charts for nearly all of Europe, in electronic form from which you can print out sections.

It's much cheaper than that. Regular price is € 218,96 (including 19% German VAT) and usually they have a special at the AERO show, this year I paid € 180 for the full set (including a free update because not all 2013 maps were available).

I have developed a software tool to convert those Flitestar VFR maps to other formats so I can use them as a moving map on iPad/Android.

I big chunk of the VFR market for Jepp in indeed Germany. The reason german pilots flying abroad love Jeppesen is that they have "VFR approach charts". Most german VFR pilots feel completely helpless without a VAC (even in going to a small uncontrolled field). This comes from how PPL training works in Germany, where the VAC is a holy cow without which one would never fly away from homebase. This in turn has to do with the Platzrunden-fetish that is part of the german VFR flying culture. Jeppesen rides this wave and draws VACs even for places where they officially don't exist (for example at UK or Italy airfields without controlled airspace).

In other countries, it is my impression that most VFR pilots are completely happy with just an AFE/Delage/Avioportolano guide, etc., because they are more informative, yet cost much less money.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Most german VFR pilots feel completely helpless without a VAC

Everything you say is true only that I would like to add that the French do it exactly the same way Having lived/worked in the US where noise abatement is unheard of and where 1960s cargo airplanes that you can't even operate in Europe due to noise fly 2000ft over congested areas, I do see a lot of value in putting a strong focus on noise abatement.

Absolutely, but as you know, noise abatement does not come from prescribing a fixed ground track, but rather it depends on piloting technique and exercising good sense. Something that is not really taught in PPL training. When instructing, I always try to add some of this "stuff" into the equation, but in Germany, there are very tight limits to that due to its rigid Platzrunden-regulations...

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

One could rant on about Jepp for ever

Pilots all over the world assume, usually correctly, that Jepp collect relevant data from the national AIPs (and corresponding products in the USA) and incorporate this in products like Jeppview (and its derivatives e.g. Flitedeck and the various MFD products), Flitestar, etc. in a nice cockpit-usable format which every pilot understands immediately.

As a result, most of the world flies with Jepp data and practically nobody reads the AIPs!

This works with IFR, which is how most of the world flies. IFR is a very "stylised" process where you depart on a SID, fly the filed enroute, arrive on a STAR, fly the IAP, land, and the handling agent has already organised your coffee, getting your toilet pumped out, and a large invoice for all that.

That is why Jepp are in business! Most people with money fly with Jepp terminal charts (approach plates) despite their horrendous pricing outside the USA.

There is a strong drive on the part of a pilot to stick with one information source. When I used to fly VFR everywhere in Europe (UK IMCR kind of VFR ) I used Navbox Pro (and still do) because you could click on an airport and see the various data including nicely set out contact data, and most of the time it would be right, or some of it would be right and you could work from there. I had never heard of the AIP - it (and notams) was never mentioned in my PPL (2000-2001). Navbox covers all of Europe down to the smallest Greek island airport, which did the job brilliantly, for under 100 quid a year.

Jepp airport data is of lower quality than Navbox's but Jepp do the terminal charts which swings things in their favour on the bigger scene (IFR).

Against this highly accepted scene you have the national CAAs who pretend Jepp doesn't exist and who insist on discharging their ICAO obligations by publishing the raw data in the AIP, organised in a manner OK for a research library but for in-flight use.

We are taught to use the AIP because it is the only official document but that works only because most pilots don't fly anywhere much. A commercial pilot would go mad flying on the AIPs - 20 pages or whatever just for La Rochelle.

Similarly VACs are supposed to be based on the AIPs and are supposed to condense the relevant information in a standard form, common across the whole coverage area.

In other countries, it is my impression that most VFR pilots are completely happy with just an AFE/Delage/Avioportolano guide, etc., because they are more informative, yet cost much less money.

Also probably because, in other countries, nobody really cares much if you fly the wrong circuit, etc. If you are going to some little place in Spain, or even the UK, you just turn up and land.

I think Germans are generally more keen to do stuff "correctly" and are more happy to pay for stuff than most people especially the Brits and that will feed the VAC demand in Germany.

If I was running a PPL school I would train pilots to be able to fly from A to B usefully, and that would include using the various usable tools.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Just to add to what Achim said...

Jeppesen VFR charts are generally accepted as correct. If I bust an airspace that is not on my map, I would much rather show that it was a Jeppesen map that was incorrect than a SkyDemon map.

I am not sure I would tour around Europe VFR with just SkyDemon although it appears to be a fine product (and I have purchased a license).

Exactly my thoughts. Whilst studying Skydemon and cross-checking Jeppesen, I did find a few (albeit minor) things that were missing on Skydemon. But it is a neat product.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

To add to my last post:

Jepp will do more VFR business in Germany simply because the German DFS doesn't publish VFR airport charts in the AIP.

Whether the DFS plays into Jepps' hands accidentally or intentionally is interesting...

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Whether the DFS plays into Jepps' hands accidentally or intentionally is interesting...

I think you're jumping a bit too easily to the conspiracy theory...

They also do very nice IFR charts, which wouldn't be in Jepps interest.

My guess is they do it to protect their own VFR products.

It may also have something to do with the NAA. At least in Switzerland, Skyguide claims they have the VFR manual online internally, but aren't allowed to publish it, because the NAA still thinks the internet is totally unsafe while shipping dead trees around is totally safe

LSZK, Switzerland

I think you're jumping a bit too easily to the conspiracy theory...

It is very simple: in Germany every government agency is supposed to charge for its services and thereby fund itself as much as possible and tax money is only used where necessary. In the US, it is very different, everything a government agency produces is freely available. We pay more than 50 € for the new RFID passports (because that's what the producer charges) and we pay to DFS for everything it is not required by law to provide free of charge. IFR charts have to be supplied to Eurocontrol which offer them free of charge but VAC don't. That's why DFS charge for them like they do for maps. Every public service in Germany has a price tag which is supposed to correspond to the cost of providing it.

This approach has pros and cons but it's just the way it is.

My guess is they do it to protect their own VFR products.

Sure, but why does the DFS publish IFR plates free but charges for the VFR ones? Is there an ICAO obligation to publish IFR charts but not VFR charts?

At least in Switzerland, Skyguide claims they have the VFR manual online internally, but aren't allowed to publish it, because the NAA still thinks the internet is totally unsafe while shipping dead trees around is totally safe

I did once buy the Skyguide book. It was about £30. It was a hassle; they did not take credit cards and back then it cost me as much again to do the bank transfer.

I suppose that - as with the UK Pooleys VFR guide - the publisher doesn't want to do an electronic version unless it is copy protected, which is possible with "relative" safety only on the Ipad. And even then if anybody with a jailbroken Ipad buys it, the electronic copy will be all over the internet very fast.

Edit: crossed with Achim's post.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top