The 421 is a pup in the cruise, just like the PA31. You may end-up in a drift down type scenario if high & heavy and your left/right leg will be sore for a while until you get the trim sorted but I can’t see it biting anyone.
After take-off/go-around with gear and a bit of flap….. now thats a different story.
Dave_Phillips wrote:
The 421 is a pup in the cruise, …
I can certainly confirm that. An engine failure in the cruise is nothing to worry much about in that plane.
However I could think of one scenario which might get you in trouble: If during cruise (or climb) on autopilot one engine fails, or slowly loses power, without the pilot noticing, he will be “woken up” by the stall warner. The autopilot is very capable and will keep attitude/altitude and heading/course for as long as it has control authority left.
Now the figures for the C421B are these: Vs(clean) 83kt, Vmca 87kt and the manual states that the stall warner will come on “5 … 10kt” before the actual stall. Which means that you might already be at or below Vmca when you realise the impending stall. The aircraft will not be directionally controllable when you take over manually, unless you unstall it first thing (nose down immediately!) and reduce power on the operating engine instantly. But this reaction is not usually trained! What the training emphasises is the reaction to an engine failure during climb at sufficient speed, where the first reaction will be to “firewall” all levers so that one gets away from the ground as fast as possible. If this trained reaction is applied in the above scenario (speed has decayed to Vmca or below already), firewalling the remaining engine will first roll the aircraft on it’s back (nto my experience luckily, but this is what my instructor told me then) and then pull it into a spin.
And if the stall warner does not work at all, which in my experience was the case in many C421s, especially the stall heater almost never worked, the pilot will be woken up by the plane violently departing controlled flight…
Peter wrote:
Any piston twin will be a handful on one engine. A 421 has a lot of power and will be a REAL handful.
If you’re current, get the prop feathered quickly, add about 5% of bank towards the good engine and get the ball centred it’s manageable.
In IMC conditions, you’d need to be on the ball to not be dead.
It’s got a lot less power than a King Air and OEI is not a problem in the cruise. In fact the only time it’s demanding is as Dave Phillips says, just after takeoff or on a OEI go-around.
what_next makes a very valid point. If you’ve got a basic A/P and you are seriously ‘thumb up bum’ you could be a long way down the road to stall/spin before you know what is happening. Throw-in an inappropriate response (a handful of aileron and fully forward on the levers) and you’ll get a nice ride. That said, you’re still not irrecoverable, especially if you have loads of height to play with. The best way to recover a Vmca event is to close both throttles and get into SEP spiral dive recovery mode. In fact, I often teach that it may be better to limit or even reduce power on the good engine whilst you sort-out the emergency. Clearly this is very dependant on the amount of sky between you and the ground.
Regardless, the video says a lot. They were in a particularly nasty spin and it would be interesting to ascertain how they got there. Final thought – if anyone ever asks you if you want to be part of an intentionally induced spin in a twin, kindly decline.
An interesting video
My old flying club lost a twin last year when it spun in from altitude – training flight. The Beech Travelair spun in from 4000 feet. The instructor was killed, the student got out without life-threatening injuries.
Only the preliminary NTSB report is out, but given the student lived to tell the tale the final report when it comes out will be interesting reading.
Preliminary report: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20161004X34956&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA
This business of twins being a “handful” following an engine failure, especially in the cruise, is normally only propagated by people who have never, or rarely, flown one. It is unusual to hear it from someone with a lot of experience.
Sometimes if I am with an SEP pilot, letting them fly, and they ask about the difficulties they have heard about, I will simulate an engine failure, while telling them to keep the nose straight with rudder. Often, when I have one engine in zero thrust, they will say, “OK, ready”.
And the talk of the C4xx series being more difficult because they are powerful is completely wrong (in the cruise). It is the underpowered aircraft – Seneca 1, Seminole, Apache etc – which are difficult because it is difficult to coax enough power out of them to keep flying.
The time that a powerful aircraft is difficult is a EFATO. The Mosquito was said to be completely uncontrollable in an EFATO, and we have seen sadly too many KingAir losses. But the danger period is really very short, and Dave is absolutely right that, especially in VMC, throttling back the other engine and sticking the nose down for a short moment can save you from flicking over.
But the danger period is really very short, and Dave is absolutely right that, especially in VMC, throttling back the other engine and sticking the nose down for a short moment can save you from flicking over.
Indeed.
During my twin training I lost control once N-1 and stalled in a FNPT II. The airplane started to flip over to the right. I reduced power on the live engine, lowered the nose and once I had regained some airspeed set full power on the live engine and pulled up into a climb at Vmca.
Reducing power on the live engine is something you learn during ME training and should be ingrained in you just as stall recovery. Even in SE training reducing power is part of spin recovery training.
I’ve lost an engine in a DA42, in IMC, and apart from the fact that I experienced a little problem with maintaining altitude and drifted down a couple thousand feet, it was not that big of a deal.
Aviathor wrote:
I’ve lost an engine in a DA42
What was the cause?
What was the cause?
Air intake icing (filter)
