I continue to think GA needs a justification, other than fun and training. GA needs a reason for its existence. That reason would be providing a realistic alternative of transportation for part of the population big enough to sustain it. In the US, apart from all specific reasons listed by NCYankee, GA is actively being used as means of transportation by private and business people, either because they are living in remote areas, or because they’re running a business with offices who need visting, or because they deem total transport time in commercial aviation too long or unreliable. Commercial aviation in the US just sucks (sorry…), trains and road travel in the US takes ages, so GA has a justification.
In Germany, although being an aviation country with lots of airfields, GA has been in decline ever since the alternative travel infrastructure became more convenient, faster, and more reliable. Yes we do have a lot of SME firms, and yes we do have lots of people needing to visit their offices, but they can do that by train or commercial aviation now much better than i.e. 20, 30 years ago, and also much cheaper. Same applies to a lot of countries in Europe, i.e. the UK, France, and Italy as well.
So, I guess, my bottom line is, GA much more depends on overall common factors such as industrial development, size of population, alternative travel infrastructure (roads, trains, CA), and comparative time to cost ratios of those alternatives, rather than on specific questions such as regulatory regimes etc.
Just one small thing, but one which I see all the time: a vast difference in new pilot confidence.
A new US PPL knows how to fly right across the US, and if he/she has the money+time, they do make good use of GA.
A new European PPL knows how to fly 100nm down the road. Much beyond that is a DIFFERENT COUNTRY which is, just about, impossible without getting a lot of instructor signoffs, confidence building, peer group encouragement, all kinds of sh*t like that.
OTOH this argument is partly circular because the relative poverty in the European GA scene means the clubs/schools have to focus harder on making money and that leads to trying to monetise the additional capabilities. When I was doing my IR in Arizona, where a school PA28 was doing 700hrs/year, I considered flying to Bryce Canyon on my last (spare) day, and the school just nodded and offered me the plane and the keys. I didn’t go for unrelated reasons.
EuroFlyer wrote:
In Germany, although being an aviation country with lots of airfields, GA has been in decline ever since the alternative travel infrastructure became more convenient, faster, and more reliable. Yes we do have a lot of SME firms, and yes we do have lots of people needing to visit their offices, but they can do that by train or commercial aviation now much better than i.e. 20, 30 years ago, and also much cheaper. Same applies to a lot of countries in Europe, i.e. the UK, France, and Italy as well.
I am not sure I would agree. To some extent the normal public got used to long transport times (public infrastructure or self-driving). Anyone who is living near a hub and going to somewhere near a large hub, can use public infrastructure (i.e. commercial airliners, trains etc).
Try working out the time you need to get from:
Wiesbaden to Norderney
Wiesbaden to Greifswald
Wiesbaden to Mont. St-Michel
SW London to the Loire Valley
and compare them to the time saving going via GA and they are enormous. This is based on real-life examples where I have flown people on that route who remarked how much time they saved and were surprised by that. (And let’s not forget that Wiesbaden and SW London are close to Frankfurt airport and Heathrow respectively. Change Wiesbaden to Karlsruhe and SW London to Bath and you get an even worse picture using public infrastructure).
For instance, Wiesbaden to Norderney takes 9-10 hours door-to-door and the person in question just assumed that was the amount of time he needed to invest/lose/waste (however you want to call it) to get from Wiesbaden to Norderney. Based on my research, good old Lufthansa, British European Airways and General Air used to fly to Nordeney from various locations until they shut down the point-to-point connections. Same is happening where the big airlines end up consolidating connections and volume in the big hubs and the general public assumes that “is the only way to travel” and accept the long door-to-door times, including security check etc.
Same story when I used to fly friends and colleagues in Singapore to a nearby island which took 45 mins by plane and 8+ hours by car and ferry. There are tons of affluent/wealthy visitors to the island (called Pulau Tioman BTW). When we got into a chat where I told them I did the trip once a month to go snorkelling for a day, they just could not believe that there are other modes of transport – not cheap but still affordable, especially given the amount of money some make (well-paid bankers and consultants) in Singapore. I ended up flying two of them home as they could not stand the 8-hour journey back!
Based on personal experience, I have been beating BA on the route SW London to Frankfurt with my DA40 in terms of door-to-door time. However, I do admit that am not able to beat BA in terms of personal time spent as I end up spending time preparing the flight, filing flight plans etc and can’t read a novel or do other work whilst flying.
Going on a bit of a rant here but I think we as a GA community are not highlighting and selling enough the value of GA to the general public and their specific needs and benefits.
@wbardorf
What you’ve described is true if you own your plane or have access to a non-club rental where the owner isn’t expecting you back on x day. You have to be able to divert/not go if weather intervenes. But I agree, there actually is real utility for leisure use (compare ferry times in the Cyclades to flying your plane!). But this is more advanced flying than most PPLs are up to, unless they have a mentor or experienced co-pilot along for the ride. That said, after a couple long trips, confidence should go way up.
I think Peter is slightly exaggerating the skill set of newly minted FAA PPLs!
wbardorf wrote:
Pulau Tioman
There used to be scheduled services to Pulau Tioman (WMBT) both from Kuala Lumpur and Singapore (I actually flew with them myself 15 or so years ago) but surprisingly no more.
I don’t think GA can or should compare itself with public transport / airline transport to justify itself to buyers. The competition for me, traveling in Europe, is motorcycling and I see it as a much more productive comparison. There is precisely zero chance that I would travel in Europe by public transport due to the crowds and lack of excitement, however European motorcycling is fantastic. Flying would probably be my choice sometimes for many of the same reasons, and with many of the limitations (weather etc) if it wasn’t for the ‘issues’ that evidently make it about 1000 times more hassle, even to go relatively short distances.
In the US the hassles for flying are not much greater than riding a motorcycle, and the appeal is similar. The reasons I might choose the plane for a US trip are to travel longer distances in shorter time, to stay away from traffic and crowds, and to enjoy the views that flying can offer.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
I think Peter is slightly exaggerating the skill set of newly minted FAA PPLs!
I don’t think he is. I “grew up as a pilot” as it were in Texas. Straight after doing my checkride, I was flying on cross countries to new airports, and the flying club didn’t discourage this at all. It wasn’t long before I was doing my first 600+ NM cross country, VFR (it was to the rec.aviation flyin, IIRC, up in Illinois). I also flew in the UK about 2 weeks after doing my FAA checkride – I was visiting, and the LAC at Barton gave me a checkout in a 172 that lasted about 45 minutes (most of the ‘difference training’ was done by reading a book on R/T and various publications at the LAC)
Of course in the USA you have the advantage that procedurally, flying in Texas is no different to flying in Oregon (but flying VFR in the UK and France have enough differences that you’ll want to study a bit and ask around first, to ensure it goes smoothly).
I was also doing it with a freelance instructor, part 61. I’m not sure the part 141 schools prepare new PPLs as well because it’s a bit of a sausage machine with the instructors never having flown outside the training environment – unlike my instructor who was a grumpy old ex military guy who owned a C182 and had many thousands of hours in GA.
Silvaire wrote:
however European motorcycling is fantastic. Flying would probably be my choice sometimes for many of the same reasons,
So, have it both ways; Flying Motorcycle
I saw a report of a US start-up to fully automate standard US SEP aircraft – no PPL needed. Claimed to have a few million $ backing already. On ANN or Avweb?
I overheard someone (who looked about 16) in Florida a couple of years ago say she’d flown in to Burning Man (88NV) in a school C152. Looked it up later and it was a 4000nm round trip. I was humbled.
People bring their own limitations, perceived or otherwise, e.g. I don’t know how to fly abroad, I have to be in the office on Monday etc. Starting young without all the personal and training establishment preconceptions would be nice, but it come back to affordability. Someone recommended https://www.millennialwings.com (the name is pretty self explanatory) which is a step in the right direction, but I’m now too old.
