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What discourages European pilots from flying to the UK?

@redrover I suggest a search on e.g.

customs and immigration

but I think the basic answer is “it has always been like that”, job protection/demarcation/territory turf-war among the officials. The unions are also strong and want to keep the system going for maximum jobs. One single policeman can perform all these functions while also providing general H24 security, and this is how they do it in say Croatia, but in “old Europe” these are established professions and they must be safeguarded The one charitable argument is that the customs function requires more brainpower than the immigration function! The Schengen treaty also supports movement of people but not goods, though this is a more recent thing, and some countries which signed it disregard it anyway, at times or permanently as in the case of Greece.

However, outside Europe, the separation of the two is rare or nonexistent, an an airport is either “Customs” (meaning it supports international travel, potentially with a PNR) or it isn’t.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

A nice hotel in Cambridge will be like one in Switzerland, and at a similar price (10x bigger).

Ah, Cambridge hotels.

I don’t know what the complaints are about UK hotels – I’ve stayed in many really nice hotels in the UK all at good value for money prices. But Cambridge on the other hand – the last time I went there, the only hotel that was under £100 a night was Cityroomz, which was more like a youth hostel and still cost a fortune. Cambridge is a bit of an outlier – it’s super expensive compared to the rest of the UK. (But don’t let that put anyone off going to the Cambridge fly-in – it’s worth it at least for a weekend stay, Cambridge is a pretty nice place).

Andreas IOM

I have done a load of travelling in Europe and have found that looking for a sub-100 hotel in any fancy destination in “civilised” Europe is tricky. If travelling as a group of say 2-3 or more then airb&b gets you a spacious apartment for the price of such a single decent hotel room and is thus much better value. Travelling alone around Europe is always expensive if you like decent standards and want to stay somewhere “central” – the EU/Euro has raised wages and costs everywhere, compared to say 30 years ago.

Cambridge is atrocious if you want a hotel near the historic centre. I have just booked an airb&b apartment in that area for the two of us, for a bit less than any of the hotels.

However I think in the context of GA travel to the UK, there isn’t a special issue there, and both airb&b and booking.com churn out plenty of options in most places.

The fact that most GA airfields are in the middle of nowhere (so you chuck a load of money at a taxi) is a special problem but that is common everywhere I should have added to my long post above that UK taxis are much less likely to be the totally shameless ripoffs which they are in so much of mainland Europe.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This is a subject close to my heart. Having previously lived and flown in France and the USA, I had a bit of a shock when I started flying in the UK. For example, on one of my early flights I’d drawn a line on my chart straight across Southampton CTA, but when talking to them on the radio was told I had a Basic Service (assumed it related to radio quality) and to avoid controlled airspace (can they even say that?). Frantic panic-stricken map reading and rerouting ensued.

Complaints, or differences, or things I’ve learnt, some of which are repeated from above:

  • “Freecall…” There is no joined up flight information or flight following service, which means a lot of repetition on the radio
  • You have to request a clearance for controlled airspace, rather than just announcing your intentions; flying in crowded South-East England doesn’t help.
  • There is a profusion of low class A airspace around London, meaning flights are generally at lower altitude than I’m happy with, but it’s the same around Milan/Milano, so not necessarily a UK thing
  • Landing fees. Not taxpayer-funded? This took me a very long time to accept.
  • The UK ‘aviation community’ is mostly one-upmanship of opinionated old farts. Or is this just me?
  • Non-Schengen, but the GAR system is good. If going non-Schengen LDPL has nicer weather :)
  • Paucity of airfield restaurants in the Guide Michelin
  • The CAA charge for their services. Seriously, I pay my taxes, right?

The UK doesn’t have a monopoly on idiocy; bureaucracy and stupid rules may vary but are almost universal. Different isn’t always better or worse: different is just different.

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

Weather & non Schengen + the Continent has great places to fly to. Maybe food too.

FWIW I took my first flight in a SEP (and first lesson) out of Elstree 22 years ago.

Last Edited by WhiskeyPapa at 24 May 18:25
Tököl LHTL

LOL, good summary Peter. I had to chuckle about the “food” paragraph though. Have spent enough time in merry ole England in my younger years and never had a problem feeding myself, which sadly shows on the scale. But then again, I had a ball at the Aero Food Chalet as well. I love to go to small English food places, get some real English food (like s&k pie, a nice handout at the chippy, lamb shank with a nice mash and so on) or, if in a hurry, drop by a Wimpy (do they still exist?) . Or have a nice breakfast with egg, rashers and bangers… But frankly, most of the time I never spent much more than a Lady Godiva on a meal in most places… maybe my tastes are not as exquisite than others…..

No, food won’t keep me away from England… nor Ireland for that matter where I ate one of the best trout in my life: fished at the water outlet of a brewery somewhere between Dublin and Galway.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 25 May 15:33
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

On the tangent of British Food – sorry, this will be long, as I’m a “foodie”:

When I moved to the UK it was still kind of abysmal, although the change had started. It was mainly the execution, not the dishes themselves that were wrong. No love for it, no finesse, no pride. I particularly remember one time when I moved down to Hastings and went to one of the busiest spots in the Old Town called Fagin’s. I mean, this restaurant had been in business for decades, and I wouldn’t feed my dog or my worst enemy what they were serving. It was absolutely atrocious. Yet, it was full each night. Mainly older people, which tells you how low the expectations were, how conditioned the older generation was to bad quality food in establishments. You could have served cat food on a plate, and they’d compliment it.

But the celebrity chef era had just begun and year by year the quality improved and the love for cooking increased. You could tell – everyone was suddenly interested in food. By the time I moved to the US, London was literally one of the best food cities in the world.

As I find myself here in the US, I have forgotten all the bad meals I had in the UK, and I remember only all the good stuff that comes out of there. I always defend British cuisine when the French or the yanks disparage it. They mistake bad execution for bad food, and they’re two different things. Britain has some absolutely great cuisine that I find myself coming back to time and again. For staters, their pudding or dessert game is second to none:

Sticky Toffee Pudding – could this be the best pudding in the world?
Victoria Cake
Eton Mess – one of my absolute favorites.
Banoffee Pie – who is the inventor of this? He needs a Nobel price.
Jam Roly Poly
Bread Pudding – Certainly had some bad BP, but when it’s done right, buttery and smooth, it can be very close to heaven.
Spotted Dick
Apple Crumble – British Apple crumble beats American Apple Pie hands down, any day of the week.
Trifles
Eccles
Custard – an unknown concept here in the US – they serve vanilla ice-cream to apple pie! The horror!

Name another nation that has such a variety of really good desserts? Most other countries give you the choice of some cheese or a scoop of icecream, and that’s about it. Speaking of cheese – some excellent cheeses out of the UK. Cheddar, of course, Stiltons, Wensleydales etc. Its not only France that has good cheese (although they certainly have a their fair share).

And only when I moved to the US, did I realize how bad you can treat bacon. Nuked into a black, dark mess that shatters into a thousand pieces, like glass, if you drop it from half an inch. My American wife still thinks that’s the way to eat it (they insist on calling it “crispy”, when in fact it should be “petrified”), and I’ve tried to make her understand the Brit way – still be bendable and not shatter. But, no, I always have to cook her bacon until it petrifies. My education of them is lifelong.

I also find myself cooking quite often not just Sunday Roast (of course), but Fisherman’s Pies, Shepherd’s Pies, Guinness Steak Pies etc. And who doesn’t love a great Fish and Chip? When it’s done with love and good quality, it’s literally one of the best dishes in the world. And what about all those curries? They’re all invented in the UK and have very little to do with India. I cook curries more than anything else, and I had to learn to do it the Brit way, as the curry houses here were so terrible.

So I don’t agree that the UK has ever had bad “food”. Just really bad execution. Thankfully, it’s all changing.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 25 May 16:23

I am currently pre-planning a trip from Vesoul LFQW to Penzance in July on a sunday.
Apart from the customs stop in France (and the PPR), I face some typical UK GA issues.

Land’s End EGHC is closed on Sundays….
Ok let’s try Newquay EGHQ, which is friendly, fully equipped but much farther away ….GA handler closes at 6:30pm and asks for 40£ per extra hour. I don’t want to fly with a time*money commitment !
Perranporth EGTP : closes at 5pm, and is closed on mondays and Tuesdays, so I wouldn’t be able to leave before wednesday !!!

So I’ll have to spend a night somewhere on the way. I heard that Compton Abbas is a most friendly airfield : closed at 6 pm and on Mondays !!!
Is that a plot against me ?

I only found Exeter or maybe Shoreham (2 hrs from my destination) as alternatives to spend an unwanted night before my destination.
So instead of getting there at 8-9pm, I’ll get there at 11am the next day. My passenger will spend almost as much time as by train, for a HUGE cost (even in a 172)

Then Youtube shows me this :



(smiley hitting a wall with his head turned red)

LFOU, France

Those all-day closures are really weird. This must be a relatively new thing. Shoreham is closed at times currently (check notams) but it is due to it having lost ATCOs because Bournemouth is paying 20k more… and the CAA has prohibited any movements (even with an indemnity) during the 1hr ATC-mandatory-break slots. But the others are non-ATC…

Lands End is run primarily for the commercial flights to the Scilly Isles; millions have been spent on it recently (hard runway etc). And the silly isles are closed Sundays; a long standing thing…

Compton Abbas is mostly a burger-run place (there is not much in the area) and most burger runs are done on weekends. They probably had little traffic Mondays. But I still don’t get why they should close totally.

Come to Shoreham and we can have a lunch in the nice decrepit “town with a character”

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter, I don’t understand what power the dear old CAA has to prohibit private use of a private landing site.

I understand that the runway(s) may be “unlicensed” when the Wireless Bunny is on the loo (as, I believe, happens at Shobdon) but WTF has it to do with me, let alone the CAA, if someone wants to land on my airfield which has no licence or WB? Am I supposed to grab Mrs Jacko’s Beretta and run around shouting “PPR” at them? Gott in Himmel

And Jujupilote, the English are absurd with their stupid aerodrome opening times and landing fees for grass runways. If I weren’t an Irish citizen I’d be ashamed. So come further North, but bring suntan lotion. For the last week or more we’ve suffered day after day of blue sky and pavement-cracking heat – by Scottish standards.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom
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