Basic question, I know, but what EXACTLY does P1 mean? My log book has a whole load of explanatory notes about PIC, SPIC and PICUS but nowhere does it mention P1. I guess my actual question is "do hours I fly with an instructor (who is commander) count as P1 hours?"
Obviously not. There can only be one pilot in command.
Possibly depends on which regime you are under - EASA, FAA etc.... But because I fly in many different areas I try to be consistent by logging PICUS or Pu/s for any check- ride where I could legally operate solo - so BFRs in the US are generally P1 (and I have had this confirmed by numerous CFIs)....and I log Pu/t or Dual where if it were not for the instructor I could not fly...
I'm sure someone will correct me...
So P1 actually means "pilot in command" then? Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know.
Yes, although my point was if the instructor was there to observe your ability to safely fly (as in a BFR or the 1hr instructor flight required to satisfy the EASA SEP renewal by experience), then you are PIlot in Command and able to log P1
But if you had let your SEP expire then you cannot legally fly as P1 and would log Pu/t with an instructor (if required) and then Pu/s for the required flight with an examiner
Prior to getting my JAR license I logged just PUT or P1. Post PPL, any IMC training, bi-annuals I have logged as P1/s (though I dont believe there is any distinction between that and PUT - thought I stand to be corrected). For FAA BFR's I log it as P1. My logbook has 2 columns - one for P1, and one other hours flown. The two columns add up to my total hours of flight time.
So I see P1 as any time I am solo, in command either from the left or right hand seat, or flying with an instructor but not for the benefit of official training (for example I took an instructor with me as a safety pilot after we had new engine fitted). Anything else I now put as P1/S.
though I dont believe there is any distinction between that and PUT - thought I stand to be corrected
I think P1/s (which is what I meant below by Pu/s), is really only used when you are unable to log P1 and are flying with an examiner...because he is not giving instruction
I was told that the history of P1 as opposed to PIC was this.
P1 and P2 were used in the RAF (and I understand still are).
When gliding in the UK started to be regulated by the BGA – the CAA were not involved, and indeed originally did not exist – the BGA decided to use the same terminology.
At some point the power flying community decided instead to have only one pilot as official aircrew in simple aircraft, not to use P2, and the terminology became PIC (or for rare occasions, as defined, PUS or PUT). The CAA, or whoever was responsible at the time, drafted the ANO accordingly. The BGA kept P1 and P2, so in a 2-seat glider where the controls are suitable for it to be flown from just one position – either of them – nevertheless, both pilots can log the time. We keep a careful log of how much P1 and hpw much P2 time we undertake. (At least, most of us do. There was no legal obligation to do so AIUI, and at least until recently it was permitted under BGA rules for pilots beyond a certain level not to need keep a log book. Almost all do, however.)
I expect this will change under EASA, but the details have not yet been published, AFAIK.
I am open to correction if anybody knows differently.
Hope that helps. Chris N.
I always thought P1 = PIC, for aircraft certified and operated as single pilot.
The real Q is why we write stuff in our logbooks. One doesn't get a medal at 1000hrs One does it for two (rational) reasons:
1) To build hours towards licenses/ratings which require certain minimum hours, and
2) The insurance gets cheaper
There is of course a third reason which is that a 10000hr pilot is a sky-god and can beat people around the head on pilot forums (well those which allow that sort of behaviour) but usually those hours were done in G-BIRO
Once a pilot has collected the papers he wants, there is no point in logging any more. Is there a legal requirement to log personal hours? I don't think so. The absolute maximum worth logging is 1500hrs (including 100 at night) which entitles you to an FAA ATPL.
And for both above purposes what usually counts is when you are the pilot in command, which is P1 or PIC.
There are cases where PU/T time counts e.g. towards an instrument qualification, but those are limited, especially in the JAR/EASA process where all of that time must be done inside an FTO with the right approvals etc.
I recall in the front of my logbook there is a guide to what all these P1,PIC,P/UT,P1/s means. Is it possible that there is no singular defintion and the leeway and confusion we encounter might be due to differences in logbook formats over time? I'm not sure, but just a thought.....
Although I dont have a copy to hand, I assumed LASORS would actaully contain the definitive current rule ??