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What stops people doing longer trips?

I am sitting in Ireland where pilots have to fly for hours to get somewhere “different”.

There is no Le Touquet etc just down the road.

From speaking to many over the years, it seems to be mainly

  • the cost of fuel (or the cost of wet rental)
  • reluctance of many to use “in-flight toilet facilities”

A number of people don’t come to fly-ins because anything over an hour or two costs too much, or they cannot find a big enough group to cost share.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I honestly don’t know what it is with ownership and the business aviation in Europe. I see the same thing on the Swedish flying forum I frequent. There are zero owners there that use aircraft for business or travel and when you say you do, they all look at you like your insane. The club mentality, perpetual renters or syndicateers are all that there is. Maybe the odd C152 owner who does a hop around the patch every second week, that’s it. I have not encountered a singel business user. Here om EuroGA there are a few, but they’re def in minority. I wonder if it’s institutional? Because when I look between the US and Europe, there is no difference in the amount of business owners or well off people – it’s about the same. I bet there are just as many people in the UK, Sweden on Germany that could afford to travel by their own plane that there is in the US. So why don’t they? Is it fear of getting shamed, being called rich and losing you working class street cred? What is it?

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 14 Aug 04:11

Being constrained in the budget department longer trips are the only trips I do – as part of a three man crew. I decided long ago that local trips were not my thing and I cannot justify the cost of flying aimlessly around for an hour so now I am looking for new experiences and challenges on every trip.

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

I think, Adam, business travel using GA is separate because the reasons are different and IMHO to a large degree cultural. It isn’t specifically longer trips.

Previous threads here and here

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I know exactly one person utilizing GA for his business in Finland. He’s very professional. Likely a few more somewhere. But where do you draw the line? Have seen jets operated by well known Swedish companies/entrepreneurs around.

Comparing with the US we have a decent airline system in Scandinavia and northern Europe. Also a huge majority of businesses are concentrated around major/capital areas. Add to that the lousy weather we get at least 6 months per year.

EFHF

Most of the usual business destinations in Europe can be reached very conveniently by CAT / HST / regular train at a fraction of the cost of GA (which realistically is a lot more expensive in Europe than the US). Add to that the 99.995% dispatch rate and the lack of needing to prepare a flight, lack of time pressure in executing the flight and it all ties in. Sure, you could do it GA but the fact is that for a large majority of users CAT / train is just a lot cheaper and hassle-free (minor annoyance of security checks aside).

Don’t forget for the Irish, just like us in the Isle of Man, the 12 hour notice required to go anywhere. Unexpected nice day? Too bad, you have to tell the Police 12 hours in advance to take your microlight that can barely lift two people up to Newtonards. Yet you could drive a bus up there without having to tell anyone.

I would probably make at least double the number of the trips I do now if it were not for that ridiculous 12 hour notice period required just for a trivial CTA flight.

Last Edited by alioth at 14 Aug 08:24
Andreas IOM

AdamFrisch wrote:

I have not encountered a singel business user.

I dit a lot of business flying in the 80s — as a renter, mind you (both club and commercial). Since then the relative cost of GA flying and airline flying has changed very much and there are generally better airline connections today. Also, some employers frown on GA flying for environmental reasons (I’m not saying it makes sense, but they do). In the 80s, government employees in Sweden were explicitly given the right to be reimbursed for business flights in “own or rented aircraft”. Today my employer won’t even discuss it, citing “environmental policy”.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

alioth I think flying into Northern Ireland from the Republic may be more relaxed? I recall a spur of the moment flight from Sligo to Enniskillen and the local Garda waved me through and I may have ’phoned Enniskillen and delivered a GAR on arrival – hopefully Dublin Pilot might confirm this.

Wales and England seem to be keenest on the twelve hour rule – obviously not suggesting anyone try an unannounced ‘drop in’.

On the topic I also think handling charges in Europe are much higher, or you need to go to airports with limited hours and limited or no custom facilities. Eurocontrol charges also apply for some of the equipment, and risk appetite. While I would prefer a well maintained, newish single engine to a legacy twin, not sure I would launch night IFR over the Alps in a piston single.

The DA42 and SR22 do seem to be an ideal owner pilot business machine so in my view there has been technological progress since I used GA as a owner pilot on business. In the case of the SR22 I am thinking of CAPS. The T182T with airbags and CAPS would also qualify. TBM PC12 and Mustang would also tick the box, but the PC12 and Mustang will tend to incur handling having to use bizjet airports (PC12 has restrictions at quite a few European GA airports due to either length or wingspan).

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

For me it’s boredom. We have a nice C-172 in our club with autopilot and G1000, but to pay €150 per hour only to sit and “nurse” an autopilot in a cramped and noisy cockpit? I have tried it, and that is definitely not why I got the PPL. Longer trips is more planning and less flying than shorter trips (I don’t count straight and level on autopilot for flying worth paying for).

Having said that, taking a couple of weeks off and visiting every odd strip in Scandinavia, carrying no more than a tent, sleeping bag and a toothbrush is something I’m looking forward to in my Onex

Then again, if I win in lotto and can jump the standard to something like this, it would be a different answer

But maybe most of all this:

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
79 Posts
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