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What to choose - SkyDemon, Jeppesen FD, JeppView, Garmin Pilot

Unusual_Flight wrote:

It is easy to do and personal I did use it with jeppesen charts-maps.

How do you scan large paper maps? Do you scan pieces and stitch them together?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Most of the times I make use of specific areas.Not that large.(SID-STAR)But you can do it both ways.You can take a picture of your self add coordinates and fly it :-)
You can flight test it as well using a flight simulator.Helps a lot.There is an addon for FSX-P3D use that called FSUIPC
One of the good things, is that you can have GPS out data from your sim.Then you can send those data to your MM via serial connection.

How do you scan large paper maps? Do you scan pieces and stitch them together?

When Jepp did the “VFR/GPS” printed charts, they also sold the same stuff on a CD, called “Raster Charts”, for about €300. This CD could be loaded only into the Flitestar / Flitemap flight planning product e.g.

as compared with say the Low Enroute IFR chart for the same place

All this was discontinued in 2013 but the stuff still runs – there is no self-destruct feature like you get with Jepp approach plates which (in all apps I know of) stop working after 2-3 months).

Some years before 2013, several people developed (independently, oddly enough) converters which converted the CD charts into TIFFs and at the same time extracted the georeferencing data and produced an Oziexplorer compatible .map file with that. Then the free Ozi tool IMG2OZF2 could be used to convert the TIFFs to the slightly more compact and much better zoomable OZF2 format. The .ozf2 and .map file pairs then run under Oziexplorer. I believe this is 100% legal (especially in Europe) if you paid for the Jepp CD.

In addition to that, converters were developed which converted the old Memory Map .qct format into TIFF. I am not aware of any which extracted the georeferencing data from the QCT, but it was trivial to calibrate the TIFF file in (the PC version of) Oziexplorer, and this route delivered the UK CAA VFR charts into the .ozf2 and .map Oziexplorer format too – in pixel-perfect quality. I believe this is 100% legal (especially in Europe) if you paid for the MM data (but MM stopped doing most of their charts in QCT, moving instead to a secured QC3 format which locks all the maps to your device – this move almost wiped out much of their business). I did a quick google for the QCT format which was reverse-engineered years ago (and someone posted a python program for decoding it) but it seems to be blown open now

In the last few years, “official” VFR charts for France, Germany, Switzerland and some other areas have appeared online and these can be processed similarly.

For Greece and some other places, this is supplemented by the US OCT charts, which have appeared in digital form in a reasonable quality but also some were scanned, and all this was calibrated for Oziexplorer also. Updated versions also exist.

So, in terms of running the “printed” charts as a GPS moving map, you have a mixture of current charts for various countries including the UK, the 2013 Jepp charts, and some old stuff which shows terrain and airports correctly and not much else.

To do this with “official” licensed data, you can use

  • Memory Map for the UK only (QC3 DRM format, files locked to your actual single device)
  • PocketFMS and the Air Million charts – @dublinpilot should know the details and pricing – and the coverage for Europe is pretty wide now, including Greece
  • Foreflight??
  • Rumours about the Garmin 695 supporting own maps??

and I think that’s about it. The foregoing support Windows, IOS and Android. Oziexplorer supports Windows and Android.

I know you can self-calibrate any map and run it under Memory Map, and I had a brief go at it years ago, but I am not a great fan of the MM app. If one is going to do “DYI maps” then Oziexplorer is a way better app. Also MM has minus absolutely zero zilch no support of any sort whatsoever (except an overwhelming desire to shaft the maximum number of users) but Oziexplorer has a very good community on Yahoo with lots of good people on it.

So that is the summary for running “printed” charts as a GPS moving map. I use the Oziexplorer solution (because I don’t like most synthesised charts – I like to see just the same clear chart with a good depiction of terrain spot elevations) but obviously the almost-entirely-VFR aviation market has spoken in a different direction

Also the “DIY map” scene is shrinking because google maps, openstreetmap, cheap satnav apps like tomtom and (the better) sygic, have eliminated the need for people driving around “the bush” having to sort out maps for the back of beyond.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I am currently putting Garmin Pilot (for VFR purposes) through its paces. And I have already discovered a few seriois shortcomings over say SD. When I am done, I will possibly write a detailed follow-up on my artcile “JMFDVFR vs. SD” in PuF, otherwise, I will share some results here.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Well, that’s a useful post. Been taking lessons from Trump’s twitter feed?

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

I’m not a high-time pilot and only have a VFR PPL, so my experience isn’t as significant as most of the other posters on here. (i.e. ‘take with salt’ :)

TL:DR; SkyDemon is great for a low-time pilot who wants a lot of features and can suffer some GUI weak points. GP is better if you plan to build into larger aircraft and will use Garmin Avionics, as the app and avionics share a common look and feel.

…——————— Insert long, verbose post here -——————-…

I tried MFDVFR, GP, SD and a few others when I moved to Europe a few years ago. I didn’t have the chance to fly a lot (maybe 30 hours a year or so, depending) so I took price and chart coverage into consideration (I fly in the US and Europe) .

Garmin makes a smooth product, and having used Garmin Avionics, it was really familiar and easy to get started. At the time they didn’t provide European charts for GA, so I dropped the app and kept looking. However, they’ve since released charts for Europe and I would recommend looking into GP if you’re thinking about advancing into IFR and using Garmin Avionics while doing so…

MFDVFR was really overpriced for the features delivered. The charts are what you’re getting, not the app. Wasn’t impressed at all. I’m sure a lot has progressed in 2 years, so don’t let me beat the app too badly here, but I wasn’t impressed.

In the end, SD won by virtue of value and neat VFR features.
I gave SkyDemon a whirl, mainly from reading forums. It was the cheapest (about $225 to start and $120/yr or so for chart updates), and it provided chart coverage for all of the US and Europe. It also has a lot of useful features for VFR pilots.
This is the best deal of the bunch.

The amount of features, chart coverage and device coverage is fantastic. With licenses for 2 devices, it works great to have 2 tablets in the cockpit: one tablet for navigation with the moving map and the other for comms, info, weather, destination charts, and so on…
Fantastic! Hook one up with LTE data and then share the connection from this Tablet via wifi to the second Tablet and you have in-flight weather and Notams on both systems, and can easily sync flightplans, paths, etc. between them by using the SD login :)

My advice would be to invest in 2x Samsung S2 tablets and install SD on them both. Plug in a USB multiport power adapter to your cigarette lighter (there are a number of good options on Amazon) and you never need to worry about charging them again.
For a total of about 850EUR, you get the equivalent of a dual screen VFR flight deck with charts for all of Europe, a portion of Africa and the US. Unbeatable value.

SD isn’t perfect, it is just cheap, and well-designed for typical VFR pilots.
It has its issues… that is for sure. Many of which are accurately listed by ortac on page 1 of the thread (I was in SW Dev and those were basic principles). Also, unfortunately, I can’t say that the devs/mods are very friendly. This is a bummer, as they’ve made a great product and a lot of enthusiasm in their forums has been crushed by spartan-style responses.

My personal rants with SD:
1) They removed my favorite chart style. I used the FAA chart style for flying in the Alps (it showed terrain elevation in detail) but they removed it. >:(

2) The app has never been ‘user friendly’ with my 8" Sony Experia Z3 Tablet. (Highly recommend that tablet btw… waterproof, indestructible and lightweight. Perfect for travel). The issues are that Pinch to zoom and simple panning are a disaster. The chart jumps erratically and there is a latency between touch and visual feedback. I don’t experience this with any other app on the same device.
—> No such issues on the Samsung S2 tablets though…

In the end, value wins for me, which means SD takes my money every year (and gladly given, at that).

Last Edited by AF at 09 Jan 15:51

@AF – I think that is a very fair and balanced (and detailed) description of the three. Even if Garmin adds some really nice VFR vector and NOTAM mapping in future, it does seem there will still be a niche for SkyDemon at their price point.

I’m surprised that no one (except Peter briefly) has mentioned EasyVFR, especially Colm (perhaps due to a conflict of interest?). It is also interesting that SkyDemon has developed such a broad following. I use EasyVFR (and previously PocketFMS). It has also been around since about 2003, I think, but seems to either have never achieved the same installed base as SkyDemon or the users are very quiet. EasyVFR runs on iOS, Android, Windows 10, and MacOS. I fly with a group (VFR) that nearly all use SkyDemon and when I look over their shoulders I’m happy with what I have. There is a great forum with super-fast response (the support team is in Europe and Australia).

It is primarily a VFR app (like SkyDemon, I believe) even if IFR IAC charts are available. It doesn’t have the IAC waypoints. But it does have all the IFR intersections (at least low-level) which are very useful and I increasingly use for VFR in preference to the gradually disappearing VOR/NDB’s. All FIS/ATC freq know them so they are good ways to give routing when requesting a clearance through controlled airspace or even just when asked routing by FIS. There are many more of them than VORs and one can almost always find a selection just about in line with the route one wants to take.

The thing I like most about EasyVFR is the coverage for one single yearly price, which is without match. The user base is not limited to Europe. Anything that has an add-on fee is purely optional and except as noted below I’ve never had a need to spend any more.
- All of Central Europe (from Scandinavia down through the Baltics, Eastern Europe including Bulgaria, down to Greece and the very western part of Turkey and a bit of Cyprus)
- USA and Canada
- Australia & New Zealand

Sure, I can hear Peter asking if I use it. Well, somewhat. I have Canadian and FAA licences and fly in North America as well as around Europe…. and if I do manage to make a trip down under, which I would very much like to do, then I’m prepared with a tool with which I’m familiar.

Second best element is its own map engine which I find very good, scales smoothly, and provides a consistent map look and feel throughout coverage. Topography is excellent, especially in mountainous regions. ICAO maps are available instead if desired, but cost extra. All the free AIP info is included at no extra cost, with the exception of Switzerland and Germany where IFR info is freely available but VFR info is only available for a fee due to copyright.

EasyVFR has all the VFR VRP’s, VFR routes, and many many non-ICAO airfields that are not in the Jepp product (e.g. LFxxxx airfields in France, Avioportolano airfields in Italy).

AeroData update process is similar to JeppFD… click a button and let it run. AIP info for the countries is downloaded first time country by country to allow management of available file space, but updates are done with one click. Weather and Notams are integrated and can be configured as desired related to the entered flight plan. Both can be displayed on the map and turned on and off at will. It accepts and displays traffic info from various sources such as FLARM, PilotAware, GDL-format soon, for those who find such info of value (many don’t).

Flight plans can be submitted directly from the app, via Rocket Route. A Rocket Route subscription is not mandatory, but a free Rocket Route id is useful if one needs to adjust the flight plan later. I use autorouter for IFR flight plan submission.

I use JeppFD for IFR although I’m considering a change to autorouter for plates outside my local area. I’d prefer to stay with JeppFD for all of Europe, but > €1’000 is simply beyond my C172 operating budget for just IAC charts. Autorouter (incl Telegram) is the tool of choice for IFR flight planning, submission, and adjustment.

I downloaded Garmin Pilot for a 30-day free trial and must say that I wasn’t impressed. I’ll perhaps spend some more time with it before the 30 days is up, but it isn’t as user-friendly as I expected.

Vince

Last Edited by chflyer at 10 Jan 10:48
LSZK, Switzerland

I will probably go back to EasyVFR having tried SD for a year.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

I suspect that one of the reasons SkyDemon gained such a large following was that it was given away free whilst in Beta stages – this coupled with the extreme tribal behaviour of the Brits who elevated SkyDemon to the new religion and Tim Dawson to the status of the new Messiah

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands
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