Yesterday, from Dortmund EDLW to Shoreham EGKA, with this being the filed route
BAMSU M170 NOSTU DCT PODAT M170 LNO L607 KOK DCT VABIK DCT DVR M140 WIZAD M140 MAY VFR
I got cleared to MAY (not EGKA) which the first time somebody noticed the “VFR” bit 
But did they know after MAY (i.e. Shoreham itself) would be OCAS? I don’t think so. You could be VFR in CAS, too.
They incidentally also didn’t like the NOSTU DCT PODAT and gave me an amended DC with “BAMSU NOSTU NOR KENUM PODAT LNO”. One sometimes wonders why they are so fussy, in a 100% radar environment. I guess there is the “lost comms” scenario…
Here and there you get a very long amended clearance or a completely different one while talking to eg. Delivery at a larger airport. Once in the air it’s “direct XZY” which bypasses all the stuff you had to listen to, write down and read back before.
Peter wrote:
One sometimes wonders why they are so fussy,…
Nörvenich is a military base, maybe the (minor) re-routing you got has something to do with their activities/airspace requirements.
You really shoud attract some radar controllers to this forum – many of them fly themselves in their free time – and we might finally get good answers to questions like this one
I am sure plenty of controllers read EuroGA, but I know for sure the UK ones are prohibited from disclosing detail, under the Official Secrets Act.
Peter wrote:
…but I know for sure the UK ones are prohibited from disclosing detail,…
I guess this will be the same (almost) everywhere, so they will certainly not talk about your specific flight. But giving generic reasons for such a minor re-routing as yours should certainly be acceptable, like “keep you further away from military airspace” or “keep you out of the instrument arrivals of Cologne”.
From here
In the USA (and apparently also now in Canada) you can get a CAS clearance just by establishing a “two-way radio contact” (there is a definition of what that means).
This is well established and is pragmatic, in the context of a long standing practice there, a unified airspace, a unified airspace depiction on charts, co-operative ATC which generally works for the pilot, and which offers a comparable service to both VFR and IFR traffic.
For Europe, I remain uncomfortable with a practice which does not involve ATC issuing a clear clearance and the pilot not reading back the clearance. This is because it is ambiguous and could be used to bite you if you screw up.
That is what happens typically in France and most people flying there like it, but it creates an ambiguity as to what, ahem, clearance you actually have This in 2003 is what happened to me. I was in two-way ATC contact and with a radar service, yet they let me fly through a prohibited area and then went on to try to bust me for it. Another case was here. Nowadays I fly there IFR and much higher…
I have also had ambiguities in Italy, Spain and down the Adriatic, on VFR flights. It all sounds great but it allows somebody to bust you if they so choose. They probably won’t get very far if you land back home before they get around to doing it (like what happened in the 2003 case above) but could bite you seriously if you land in the country in question, following some airborne event which draws attention.
The UK correctly insists on a formal “clearance” issued by ATC and insists that you read it back.
Interesting discussion. Especially the comments re France. In Canada, if the airspace is controlled (class C or above), you will hear ‘cleared’ in the controllers instructions. You don’t have to repeat the clearance, you just acknowledge it with the call sign. For the most part is very ‘clear’, no pun intended.
I have been in Peter’s situation and I think the issue arises fromt the difference between VFR and IFR; if I had any form of service when VFR (Basic in the UK, FIS in the USA or Canada) I would not expect FIS to have checked danger or restricted areas. So it is the pilot’s responsibility when VFR.
I recall one situation with a restricted/danger area just outside a class C zone for an airfield. I was under control and on a VFR clearance departing the field, headed towards the restricted area. I switched from the airfield tower controller to the FIS (who was also the terminal area controller for the class C above). He had me on radar with a squawk code and knew I was routing direct for destination (through the danger/restricted airspace). It was unclear to me if I was good to go, or if I was about to be in trouble. We sorted it out before it went wrong, but I later realised that it was totally my responsibility. It is obvious now, but not in the heat of the moment.
When IFR on the same routing, I would be on a clearance, and expect that ATC had sorted out the danger/restricted airspace if applicable. This is why it is easier to fly IFR in foreign countries.
One example of the simplified clearances in North America vs the UK is flying along a shoreline. If you come upon a coastal airport and want to transit through an airfield control zone, you have to initiate contact, pass your message (including your life history), then repeat the full clearance. A right pain the backside for a 2 minute transit.
Conversely, if it is not busy, in North America, you might get this in one exchange, perhaps even without a wake-up call:
Pilot:
Tower, this is Cherokee GABC, 5 miles to the west, 1500 feet, request eastbound transit though your zone along the coast.
Tower:
GABC, ‘cleared’ through the zone, not below 1500, altimeter 2992.
Pilot:
GABC.
Job done and there is nothing ambiguous. The pass your message exchange and subsequent clearance is so lengthy in the UK that I have stopped asking for transits unless they are really necessary. This seems self defeating, as ATC are supposed to be there to help you.
In the US, one must establish radio contact prior to entering Class D or Class C airspace, or class G or E airspace around an airport that has an operating control tower when within 2500 AGL and 4 NM of the airport. Class B airspace requires a clearance prior to entry. Restricted airspace may be hot/cold by NOTAM, and if hot, must be avoided. Prohibited airspace must be avoided or you risk being intercepted or if perceived to be a threat, shot down. The Washington DC SFRA requires a DC VFR SFRA flightplan, contact with Potomac approach prior to entry, and squawking an assigned transponder code to the ground or you will be intercepted and if perceived to be a threat, shot down. Military Operating areas do not bar entry, but can be risky.
Establishing radio contact involves a radio contact with the tower and an explicit acknowledgement from the tower using the call sign of the aircraft. So a response of “Aircraft calling Myrtle Beach tower, information Yankee is active” is not established radio contact, but “N12345 calling Myrtle Beach tower, say again.” is established. You don’t need a clearance to enter the C, D, E, or G airspace around the tower once radio contact is established, but you must remain in radio contact and if any ATC instructions are issued, you are obliged by regulation to follow them. If you are VFR, usually ATC will coordinate with a tower, but it is the responsibility of the pilot to comply, not ATC. If the airspace to be penetrated is Class B, then even if you are VFR on Flight Following, unless you are explicitly cleared into class B, it can be a violation.
The key thing is whether the said country has filed a difference to ICAO. IIRC, the USA has done so (I recall reading something in the differenced filed document somewhere). I am pretty damn sure France has not…
In theory, even in contact with a French FIS, you have to call specifically to get cleared through CAS.
If you don’t, you are technically illegal but nobody cares much. If you told your route and altitude beforehand and you kept them, just say “I’m sorry” and you’ll be fine.
Most of the time they won’t even notice you enterred CAS, they just don’t make a difference between Class G/E and Class D.
Unless the frequency is very busy, I do call them before entering CAS, saying something like “Confirm I am cleared through your TMA ?” and they usually answer “Affirm”. That’s it.
A good exemple is at 15:20 of this video :
If you enter a P area, even without being warned of it, it is a another story, because most refer to national security, people on the ground may report you, so DGAC may have to initiate a case on you to show they are serious about this. Being on FIS does not relieve you from your responsibilities. Some rules have to be enforced (even in France
I understand there are cultural aspects in this that can disturb a foreigner. Every country has a particular “relationship with the law” as i call it
