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Hello,

As ~130h PPLer, I am currently doing my NVFR. I am still uncertain on which next step to take.
Obviously I am heading to IR but still unsure if I should do EIR or full IR or …
The boundary condition are cost/time investment vs. usage (I am only flying in my free time and for fun – ~30h/y).

At this stage I am more incline to go for a EIR first and see afterwards if an “upgrade” is needed.

Any comments and views on this are more than welcome.

Thx in advance !

jfw
Belgium: EBGB (Grimbergen, Brussels) - EBNM (Namur), Belgium

We are headed towards a completely modular IR for PPL where you can work towards a full ICAO IR in steps. Starting with the EIR makes sense as you will be able to use that as a basis for a full IR with additional training and skill test.

Last Edited by Aviathor at 20 Dec 09:19
LFPT, LFPN

In the UK, starting with the IR(R) might make more sense since it allows you to do an train approaches. Personally, now I think I would start with the IR(R), then fly a bit on your own, then go for CBIR shortly thereafter.
The IR(R) theoretical is super simple. Also, after getting the EIR you’ll mostly practice flying with the autopilot in VMC so might not be a great way to continue into the CBIR.

IR(R) not available outside of the UK. And outside of the UK it is illegal to fly VFR in IMC.

So the only options for those who fly outside the UK are either the EIR or the IR, pending the BIR (Basic IR).

Last Edited by Aviathor at 20 Dec 09:58
LFPT, LFPN

Given that you need to spend > 90% of the effort of getting a CB-IR on getting an EIR, I think it’s pretty pointless. You may as well just go straight for the CB-IR.

Aviathor wrote:

IR(R) not available outside of the UK. And outside of the UK it is illegal to fly VFR in IMC.

So the only options for those who fly outside the UK are either the EIR or the IR, pending the BIR (Basic IR)

You’re totally right. I think I was still a bit too sleepy and the GB in the airport name confused me. Agree pointless outside UK

And outside of the UK it is illegal to fly VFR in IMC

It is everywhere

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

It is everywhere

You beat me to it!

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I think impossible might even be more fitting :)

Yes; a fundamental midunderstanding is involved here.

In the UK, you can depart VFR and then go straight into IMC. This is legal because

  • IFR in Class G is legal
  • IFR in Class G doesn’t need a clearance (i.e. it is legal to fly it non-radio)
  • no clearance can be delivered anyway in Class G (don’t try this overtly in the USA because they will bust you for not having filed an IFR flight plan)

The pilot still needs the IFR privilege (IMCR or IR) and a suitably equipped and IFR certified aircraft (for IFR in Class G that isn’t much, however, on a certified plane).

Does France not allow IFR in its Class G, non-radio? It allows non-radio and non-TXP VFR in Class G F E. And since a clearance cannot be delivered in G anyway, why is a Brit with an IR illegal to fly in French cloud in Class G, non-radio? You cannot insist on a radio contact where a clearance cannot be delivered, enroute, or can you?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
140 Posts
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