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Which notam source - NOAA or Eurocontrol and bizzare notam time span issues

Which is a bit of a pain.... For L2K I always trusted the NATS NOTAM site, but can I really trust it, or SkyDemon for that matter for La Rochelle? I have the link to the SIA site, but would prefer to centralise things.

I am 99% certain that there is only one NOTAM source in Eurocontrol land but this should be verified to be absolutely sure. Anyone knows where to ask?

For L2K I always trusted the NATS NOTAM site, but can I really trust it, or SkyDemon for that matter for La Rochelle? I have the link to the SIA site, but would prefer to centralise things.

They have to say that (the UK cannot be responsible for anything in France) and historically that is partly true e.g. the French D-Series notams (airfield notams for non international airports) were not distributed to the UK.

AFAIK all European notams are sent to Eurocontrol today.

The problem with this NOAA business seems to be that they (in the USA) are not getting some European notams, for whatever reason. Interestingly, they couldn't care less, even when I reminded them that American airlines flying into Europe are prob99 briefing from NOAA.

I have a good contact in Eurocontrol and will point him to this thread.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think achimha's point is interesting. It seems RocketRoute gets its info from Eurocontrol, but do we know where SkyDemon, Jepp FD and the other apps/websites get their data from? I had a look on the SkyDemon website and it doesn't list a source.

This touches an interesting point. Let's say you bust a restricted area which was NOTAM'ed and you >claim you have obtained a NOTAM briefing and there was nothing about it.

The authorities will tell you: 1.1. You did not obtain that briefing, you just made that up. Prove that you did obtain it!

2. Your method of receiving the briefing (US NOAA site) was inappropriate for a flight in country XYZ

The only way to be on the safe side in my view is to use the NOTAM briefing of the country's AIS and >either download and store the briefing or make sure the system records all briefing requests with >your name and/or aircraft registration. For IFR flights, RocketRoute sends me a PDF with everything >which I keep but for VFR flights I use the AIS site which takes my aircraft registration and stores it in >a database.

The NOTAM system is built on the idea that you get your briefings from the country of departure. The idea being that you then have all domestic NOTAMS for the country of departure, and all international NOTAMS for the country of destination (and any enroute countries). As it's an international flight you can only land at an international airport, so domestic NOTAMs in those countries are not relevant.

This is why until a few years ago the French didn't bother sharing their series D NOTAMs with others (except Schengen countries) because they didn't affect a flight that you could make from one of those countries.

A few years ago, things changed and EuroControl now maintains a central database of European NOTAMS. All NOTAMs generated by a EuroControl country are held in that central database.

You would be on dangerous ground using a NOTAM briefing system that did not take it's NOTAMs from EuroControl for a flight originating from a EuroCountrol country. Taking them from a US website would likely result in an incomplete briefing.

If you get them from a EuroControl source then you'll have access to them all.

I imagine all the major systems in Europe use a EuroControl B2B link, but don't have any inside knowledge other than EasyVFR/PocketFMS.

EasyVFR & PocketFMS definitely uses a direct real-time link to EuroControl for its NOTAM briefing.

The idea you mention of later proving you did a briefing (and what was in fact on that briefing) I think is an important one. It's not been unknown for NOTAMs to be filed with incorrect co-ordinates, or wrong information (which was later corrected, but you could have seen the wrong version first). When you're being asked to justify your briefing later, it might be very hard to prove this. So I think keeping a record is very important. It could also be the case that you might not realise that you're in trouble until you get a letter in the post many weeks later.

EasyVFR makes it very easy to print your briefing from your phone or tablet. It also makes it possible to store an electronic copy of your briefing in the cloud so that you can retrieve it months later if necessary. As far as I know, it's the only system that allows you to make an electronic copy in the cloud (and the only one that makes it so easy to print from a phone or tablet). I'm really surprised that other system haven't tried to make this easier.

I could retrieve an electronic copy of my NOTAM briefing for any flight that I've made in the past 18 months or so if I needed to. It would show the exact NOTAMs that I saw before I briefed, and the time that I briefed. It would make defending myself a lot easier.

Colm

EIWT Weston, Ireland

Just got this from EuroFPL, with authorisation to post it:

Some time ago when we first set up our briefing system, well before sequestration and whatnot, the NOAA/DoD NOTAMs were very lacking in some parts of Europe/Scandinavia. We've since melded sources from CFMU and the aforementioned US agencies to come up with a much more complete picture.

To be precise our North American source for NOTAMs is the DoD/FAA NAIMES PilotWeb site, and for Europe, the Eurocontrol/CFMU INO procured via Eurocontrol's B2B web service.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There are two main free sources. However most of the time they produce different data. For example for EGKA today:

IPPC:

NOAA:

The NOAA ones are in this case presumably parsed and formatted by some software, but the interesting thing is that there are more of them!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

How do you get it formatter like that from IPPC?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Nevermind, only used point and click on that new version.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

EAD is also a free NOTAM source. It lists the same NOTAMs as IPPC (except EG/C2935/18 which has expired).

Both the IPCC and EAD bulletins list NOTAMs active for the next 24 hours. NOAA seem to list every current and future NOTAM. You can get that using EAD as well if you want to — presumably also using IPCC.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 14 Jun 09:54
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

There is something wrong with NOAA notams.

IPPC:

>>> EGKA (SHOREHAM)

SCHEDULE: 16 23 0800-1800, 17 18-19 24 26 0800-1900, 20-22 25 27-29
0800-0900, 30 0800-1800
SHOREHAM APPROACH DOWNGRADED TO AIR-GROUND COMMUNICATION SERVICE.
ALL MOVEMENTS STRCTLY PPR. : NOTAM EG/C4837/18

>>> END-OF-BULLETIN <<<

NOAA:

nothing

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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