I agree, that both the 182 and the Bonanza have the better LG for soft/grass surfaces. The Cirrus can do it “okay” though. I fly to grass strips + 30 times/year with the SR22, and it’s not a very good good one, rather average. The wheel pants don’t get nicer … but i have three pairs I can change .. :-) Consumables …
There’s some models that sell really well.
For example at the moment it’s hard to find goo 172s and 182s with G1000, especially with the integrated GFC700 autopilot. 172s of that kind are hard to find and very expensive.
Also good examples of the SR22 G2 and G3 (NA) that are not overpriced and in very good condition will sell within a week at the moment. I know two guys at the moment who are looking for months now and can’t find a good one.
I got a very good offer for mine lately … but what will i fly then?
Mooney_Driver wrote:
You want to fly between the UK and S-France, but you live near the alps?
There are Alps in the South France, you know. 
You want 2 POB or 4 as you said later?
He wants two, he just noted that that Bonanza could probably take four with gear. That’s how I understood it.
That is too tight.
It can’t be all up and it can’t include a reserve for unscheduled maintenance. I should have been more specific but I failed to anticipate this problem. I, for example, don’t budget for unscheduled maintenance (I know how much money can I get together and how fast). I wasn’t sure how to approach this in my response without giving him unsolicited financial advice.
Why? You are a checked out pilot, low experience ok, but still, what exactly do you worry about?
I thought it was flight planning. But there is no basis for it (other than it being what I can imagine), it can be anything.
mh wrote:
The SR22 has one single point of sale: the parachute. If you don’t value the parachute as much as some of the Cirrus flyers do, there are plenty options of 200+ hp aircraft to go touring.
That’s not exactly true. SR22 is not my style, I don’t need the parachute, but what brought me repeatedly back to this plane in this category is deicing and air conditioning. Even if you ignore A/C, deicing itself is a big limiting factor (unless you fancy retrofitting the system). SR22s sold in large numbers and a lot of them have TKS (at least the basic version). But I might be a bit off, I’m not that familiar with airframes with one door as I don’t like that arrangement.
Another factor is whether the OP wants a modern looking plane.
This is a big “polarising” factor in these discussions.
Working within the €200k budget, many people will give a list of planes which are very old designs even if available new. Some people are OK with that, some are not, but often they don’t want to say it openly.
A number of people are buying the SR22 for the TKS system, which is expensive (c. €50k) to retrofit. Of course the chute is attractive to some too, for reasons already very adequately discussed
I don’t like single-door planes either and would have never bought one when I was looking. Of the modern designs, the SR22, the TB20, the C400 and maybe some others in current or recent production have 2 doors. The aforementioned link goes through the process I used to make my decision and may be worth a quick read.
A €200k is a nice budget and one can get something nice for that. Not new, unless you go way down the capability while still wanting proper IFR. Still, in the SEP game, one needs to be capable of writing a cheque for €20k at any time, for maintenance surprises.
Peter wrote:
Also the higher speed means you need to plan ahead. That is really the biggest thing. It’s easy but it is a whole new mindset, not taught at the PPL level.
That’s not entirely true. There are schools that offer training on faster planes, practicing approaches at busy international airports or trips with an instructor (group or individual, later is of course more expensive), often abroad, etc. The options are out there. But nothing is stopping someone from just sitting for 45 hours in a Cessna 150 in an attempt to get his PPL on the cheap.
A good techy person could go straight from a C152 to a TBM.
Certainly. Except that Socata wants 500 hours PIC (or P1) time, IIRC. As much as you need to get LHS in a jet (you can get TR restricted to co-pilot with just the minimum requirements (1) and this is so even on SP certified jets). And they have the right to do so. I don’t think change of ownership changed that. Unless you are implying flying for 500 hours in a 152.
PS: (1) Just in case you don’t know, 70 hours PIC, 200 total. This is enough for a turboprop PA-46 or a PC-12, AFAIK, but not for the TBM.
Except that Socata wants 500 hours PIC (or P1) time
I am sure Socata would sell a TBM to my long-dead grandmother if she came up with the $4M or whatever
Getting the pilot papers and getting insured would be something else 
AFAIK some air forces are skipping the SEP stage and going straight to turboprops for ab initio training. So it all depends on the quality of the intake and the quality of the instruction.
But nothing is stopping someone from just sitting for 45 hours in a Cessna 150 in an attempt to get his PPL on the cheap.
Of course, but I think the reality (based on many people I know) is that most “high perf” owners don’t seek out advanced training.
The other issue is how to do a prebuy check. I am familiar with many of these and most were done totally inadequately. In some cases the buyer just falls in love with a plane and buys it, and then finds it’s a can of worms. And if one has travelled a long way to get there, this outcome is very likely.
-I don’t want something with a likelyhood of maintenance issues.i.e. nothing too old
Is that realistic? I’ve never had access to anything other than old aircraft, but it seems to me that any aircraft, even new ones just out of warrenty, can and will come up with significant unscheduled maintenance bills. It doesn’t seem to be a matter of if, but rather of when.
Still, in the SEP game, one needs to be capable of writing a cheque for €20k at any time, for maintenance surprises.
Sounds about right.
Peter wrote:
I am sure Socata would sell a TBM to my long-dead grandmother if she came up with the $4M or whatever
Of course they would sell it to you. It’s not a condition for sale. That would be silly since you can just hire a pilot, that’s none of their business. It’s condition for the training. And under EASA, AFAIK, manufacturer can increase the requirements and every ATO/ NAA should observe them.
AFAIK some air forces are skipping the SEP stage and going straight to turboprops for ab initio training. So it all depends on the quality of the intake and the quality of the instruction.
Of course it’s doable. Question would be whether it’s economic. I know that some air forces tried to skip turboprop stage, but returned to it. And if they’re skipping the SEP stage, they need something for the screening. Doing it in turboprops is way too expensive. I would imagine they cooperate with some organization outside the AF.
PS: Not just intake and instruction, I would imagine they will kick you out quickly if you can’t keep up or make mistakes. They can approach it the “you have 10 hours to solo or you can pack your bags” way. While in the private world, you just pour money on the problem as you want to fly.
Still, in the SEP game, one needs to be capable of writing a cheque for €20k at any time, for maintenance surprises.
Yep. More wouldn’t hurt. Or be prepared to be grounded.
Of course, but I think the reality (based on many people I know) is that most “high perf” owners don’t seek out advanced training.
Their loss. I would consider it a waste of time and money unless I actually needed 45 hours to reach the necessary level in a 150. If I wanted to do it on the cheap, I would go via sailplanes and motorgliders (coincidentally, I think that starting with sailplanes is the right way to do it). I just don’t think it’s fair to say it’s not taught.
The other issue is how to do a prebuy check.
It should be at least equivalent to an annual, IMO. Preferably where the plane isn’t normally maintained, best in a shop you trust. Taking along an experienced mechanic or owner wouldn’t hurt as they have an idea of what to look for and could find some issues right at the beginning.
Flyer59 wrote:
I got a very good offer for mine lately … but what will i fly then?
A Bonanza, only way to go……joking aside, though, this whole conversation is the true dilemma of aeroplane ownership, and purchase. Once in the High Perf, SEP, it can develop into the total minefield of maintenance, AD, gotchas, SB’s, et al. Even with a nice 200k budget, Can soon disappear. I do not think anyone, other than Peter, would appear to get the full and total utilisation out of the plane they own. I stand to be shot at, but I certainly do not. I would love to have the time, and budget, to really travel in mine, but life tends to get in the way. A potential purchaser can while away hours, pondering the correct route, the correct plane, but will it ever be what they actually dreamed of and wanted? I thought my Bonanza was it, but I have just purchased a Super Cub. Back to two planes, and now wondering what to do for the best. My flying profile changed, so back to the flying I love, taildraggers into fields. Oh, and my wife moaning again
