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Why is there no entrepreneurial mojo when it comes to owner flown in Europe?

I don’t think that the people who can own planes care much for what others think. After all, most don’t advertise it. Only a small % of pilots are the narcissistic type

The stuff I described is simply the politics of doing business in the scenarios I am familiar with. Most of the time you get further if you play down your wealth, if the buyer you are meeting is on a fraction of your income.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

… I’m glad to say that I don’t recognise the description in Mooney Drivers posts.

Nor do I and I don’t live very far away from him. Where I live the parking lots of Lidl and Aldi discount food stores are full of Porsches and Mercedes cars. And why not because after all they sell exactly the same products manufactured by exactly the same makers only with a different label.

NB: And all those online services that find you the cheapest of everything (from booking.com to eBay, uber and airbnb) as well as low(est) cost airtravel (that ruined the pay and working conditions for everyone in the industry) are American inventions, not European.

Last Edited by what_next at 14 May 11:42
EDDS - Stuttgart

achimha wrote:

Look at grocery stores, the margins in the US are about double compared to what we find in most European countries. Walmart operate a fleet of 17 aircraft I was told. Compare that to Aldi or Lidl, they probably operate 17 Opel Astra from 1995 and require all seats to be filled

Those things are very strange and defies common logic. In Norway, the richest people are the owners of a handful of grocery stores. About 15 years ago Lidl, with their “lean and mean” structure tried to establish themselves, building shops all over the place, with very low prices. They held out 2-3 years before they had to throw in the towel and leave. Their shops was sold to one of the main competitors. People have tried to explain what happened, but I have not seen a good one yet, probably a combination of several different weird factors.

Half a year ago, one of those grocery stores tried to get more customers and lower prices by introducing an app that would make you pay less for those things you purchased most. They also slightly changed their goods to emphasize on locally produced goods instead of goods from the big chains. It has been a disaster for them, even though the customers in general want more locally produced goods and cheaper goods. Who would have known?

It really also is the same in Aviation. Multiple airline companies have tried to establish themselves here with low prices, direct flights to large European cities etc etc No one has ever managed to compete with SAS and Widerøe, even though they charge way more than those competing companies. Even Raynair has (more or less) given up on Norway. We had Braathens for a while, until they gave up, and KLM is doing OK with their direct flights to Amsterdam (and excellent connections further). Then came Norwegian Air Shuttle. They started with two empty hands, and in record speed built themselves up to become one of the largest European low price companies, and the largest major airline in Norway. There has been lots of mess with Norwegian, treating pilots and air personnel very bad and so on, having to pay for luggage etc. They aren’t much better than Raynair in any respect, which the average Norwegian (love to) hate. But somehow the public just love Norwegian Air Shuttle. How do you explain this?

It does not make sense. An average Norwegian customer would rather pay €200 for a flight to London with SAS, than to pay €20 with Raynair. But €150 with Norwegian is more preferable still.

I think there is more to this Wallmart thing than pure business and economics. Something to do with identity or something.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

The ability to buy bizjets is related to how much money one makes, not to whether one has a “frugal” retail image designed to appeal to a particular group of people or a particular national culture

Grocery gross margins are in the region of 50% and I am sure that Lidl have those as well. And I am sure Waitrose (UK, much more upmarket in terms of product quality) have similar margins. That whole industry screws its suppliers using grossly indecent techniques but there are always plenty who go along with it. My biggest UK customer is a US owned company which treats its suppliers like dirt but has just bought a jet for probably £20M. And I still don’t think I would overtly fly to a “vendor appraisal event” there in my plane

So perception is nowhere near reality. I am sure many more big companies would buy bizjets here in Europe if they could be sure of being able to hide them from their shareholders / balance sheets (they often lease them).

But this thread is about individuals using GA for business travel and I think Adam was referring mainly to seeing customers. Anybody can use GA to fly to some exhibition where nobody cares if you cancel due to wx or don’t even bother to go at all.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

No comments to add, all I thought on the matter has already been duly stated.

Still, @T/S, what exactly is a mojo ?

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

I had a feeling these differences between Europe and America have a lot to do with the public perception of frugality – more positive (as a sign of rationality) in Europe and more negative (as a sign of stinginess) in America. However, judging by LeSving’s post, Norway may be a major exception.

LKBU (near Prague), Czech Republic

Jan_Olieslagers wrote:

what exactly is a mojo ?

Normally used by a chav, Z listeR celebrity, failing pop princess, QUOTE – Christ I got me mojo back……

Always sounds better with a Northern UK accent.

mojo1
ˈməʊdʒəʊ/
nounUS
a magic charm, talisman, or spell.
“someone must have their mojo working over at the record company”
influence, especially magic power.
“the name has no mojo”
Origin

early 20th century: probably of African origin; compare with Gullah moco ‘witchcraft’.
mojo2
ˈməʊdʒəʊ,ˈməʊhəʊ/
nounUS
noun: mojo
a Cuban sauce or marinade containing garlic, olive oil, and sour oranges.
Origin

probably from Spanish mojo ‘wet’ from mojar ‘make wet’.
Translate mojo to
Use over time for: mojo

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow
Always sounds better with a Northern UK accent.
Thanks for enlightenment ; this place can work wonders to one’s cultural horizons!
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Your very welcome. Always helps to be down wit the kidzz…….

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

I live in Switzerland and also don’t agree with Mooney Driver’s overall take. One problem with the media these days is that a few negative people can get big press. There will always be people who see the glass half-empty rather than half-full. But to say this is the majority or even a significant minority is wrong, in my opinion. Surveys in Switzerland regularly show that people are mostly content with their lives, which just doesn’t sync with the statements above.

As far as aviation is concerned, the key to public support is communication, communication, communication. The (grass) airfield where I am based completed a multi-million (yes, that’s right) infrastructure improvement and expansion project last year. There was an open day in June and there were an estimated 8’000 visitors over 2 days of somewhat rainy weather. The aeroclub board is in regular (constant?) contact with local and federal authorities and the anti-noise group. On a nice day there are 100’s of non-pilot visitors/families out for a walk or cycle. Local public support is high, but that wasn’t the case 15 years ago. Building it is a long-term activity that needs a plan. The aeroclub board realized a decade ago that without public support, any plans could be blocked so they made it a priority to get everyone on board with the development. Today, those that were against or lukewarm towards the airfield are now supporters (if there are opponents, they are very quiet these days).

All this is not directly connected to GA activity, but it is of note that the airfield is often busy with most club and many private aircraft in the air when other airfields nearby are struggling. The airfield is just a place that people like to spend time, and that automatically generates business/activity. Mixing the general public with the pilots and aircraft, which is possible at the smaller fields if over-regulation can be held in check, is the best way to build an informed public and break down the prejudices mentioned above.

Last Edited by chflyer at 14 May 16:18
LSZK, Switzerland
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