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Why the obsession with TBM's and PC12's, when a Mustang is much cheaper?

True RW20 the Pilatus is a totally different market segment, the fun bit of that one is that it is the best of several worlds. No wonder it is a best seller…

Runway requirement in Europe is a huge thing true, I forgot about that momentarily. It has quite killed the twin market and also has had an impact on MET and jets in the personal transport cathegory. The Cirrus Jet might once again change some of this as it is probably the only single engine jet on the market which is not a warbird.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I am sure EASA will impose some balanced field requirements for the Cirrus Jet, and make people do V1 cuts as part of their type ratings.

But…must…write…about…TBM and PC12 and Mustang…here…else posts…will…be…moved.

Last Edited by Rwy20 at 05 Aug 19:27

Would not surprise me…. I am sure that there are many in the regulator’s offices that are horrified at the prospect of jets becoming more common and will do all to spoil it.

As for TBM and PC12, I think the primary planes to compare are a bit different. Cirrus Jet or Mustang customers might be such who had Jetprops or TBM’s, Those who fly PC12 would be in for something a bit more robust such as a PC24. The 12 really is a one of a kind and class. If you need short field performance and this kind of payload, it is the thing. No jet can do that.

Even though I have seen Citations at Courchevel… so far not one at Locher Field however :)

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

TBM and PC12 and Mustang…here…else posts…will…be…moved.

I am not such a dictator

In the past, a (very) few people who have way too much time and who pretend they are entitled to “free speech” which entitles them to flood the internet with whatever they want to say, on or (mostly) off topic, created situations which needed mod action. When this action took place, a huge amount of sh*t got kicked up (here and behind the scenes, with me and EuroGA slagged off on certain national forums, with one running an email campaign) and a lot of toys got chucked out of the pram, and the result was misrepresented as some kind of fascist communist suppression of free speech. Quite cleverly, I admit…

Also some topics generate more hot air than others. Anything to do with Cirrus does that automatically. There is no technical reason why it should.

Most of the time I am easy on off topic stuff.

I am sure that there are many in the regulator’s offices that are horrified at the prospect of jets becoming more common and will do all to spoil it.

You should have been at a certain NATS presentation in Swanwick a few years ago. The vitriol thrown at the bizjet community was astonishing. They do produce slightly more level busts etc than airline traffic, but they would do because they fly all different sectors whereas airline traffic is the same routes and same procedures all day long…

How this translates to regulatory effects, I don’t know. Probably not much but a lot of heat comes out in ATC forums. The basic ICAO provisions protect everybody pretty well – in the civilised world. You get a PPL/IR, HPA, the jet TR, and meet the insurance requirements, and you are legal.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have looked at both the TBM and the Mustang and I think they are completely different airplanes and not comparable at all. The Mustang is a lot cheaper (now only available second hand) even though I assume it is costlier to manufacture than a TBM. However, its utility value is significantly below that of a TBM. With a Mustang, I could fly to only about 50% of the airfields I currently frequent (100% with the TBM) and the Mustang’s range is a lot less than the TBM’s range. The chance that a doable city pair with the Mustang also has scheduled commercial service is very high.

The Mustang is a nice aircraft but for me (and most other private owner pilots) it would not be very useful. You need a very specific mission profile for that aircraft while the TBM is a miracle in speed, range and airfield accessibility. The price tag reflects that.

I’m not sure I’d take the TBM to any rougher airfields than I would a Mustang. Shorter, yes, but not rougher. Have you seen how small the front wheel is and how close the prop is to the ground? They just don’t look built for anything but ballroom smooth tarmac.

My impression is that the Mustang may attract higher handling for the typical airports these types visit?

There is also the question of which type might suffer higher depreciation – the PC12 always has had very good residual/re sale values. Some operators even preferring the pre NG model.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Who goes to rough airfields with a cabin class aircraft? That is very rare in Europe. Shorter airfields are very common though.

Some of the Italian strips shown here are moderately rough, and his home airfield isn’t a bowling green either.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I’m not sure I’d take the TBM to any rougher airfields than I would a Mustang. Shorter, yes, but not rougher. Have you seen how small the front wheel is and how close the prop is to the ground? They just don’t look built for anything but ballroom smooth tarmac.

Once upon a time I was fairly familiar with where a particular factory demo TBM700 was landed at, and it was landed on all kinds of grass fields. IMHO the nosewheel is no different (in proportion to size) to say a TB20. It comes down to the usual attitude to risk (is it your plane?) and knowing the location beforehand, or trusting the person who told you there are no potholes. In general, in GA, you can’t trust another pilot telling you the condition of a grass strip, in the same way you can’t trust a Landrover-driving farmer telling you whether you can drive your Ford Ka up some track. But subject to these things being sorted, there is no reason (other than extra dirt → extra maintenance) why a TBM or a PC12 could not be landed on grass.

@eal lands his Jetprop on grass all the time, but I think he is very good at it and has done due diligence beforehand.

Who goes to rough airfields with a cabin class aircraft? That is very rare in Europe

Probably because the European population of turboprop owners is self selecting on mission profile e.g. if they wanted to do grass they would buy a Maule I have known many TP owners here and most of them flew between hard runways, long distances, etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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