Walter wrote:
The question, for me still not answered, is which of these things you actually need to add to the base line of an aircraft
For me, the number one is deicing. How much deicing depends on where and when I fly. I consider prop deice the minimum. If there is no warm air to descend into, I want the full monty. Number two is forced induction (turbocharging), to climb faster. That will get the job done. Third would be weather radar, if passenger comfort isn’t a high priority.
To be more specific. The m20j201 and the m20k231 are currently planes I do like… Yes the are old, have no TKS (generally) and no glas and don’t take a lot of load.
I know the difference in performance and the 20usd per hrs difference in operating them in the US. But I did not hear anything ford Europe?
M20j has a laminar flow wing more performance drop when picking up ice. The 200Hp is asthmatic above FL100. You won’t find a descent TN within you price range. I had a M20J fine aircraft btw FL60 FL80 above that you need more power. I fly an old Bonanza now, which is very well equipped A/P, EHSI, Approach capable GPS, Stormscope etc… it is faster and more powerful and it can fly higher and a lot more comfortable then a M20J. I am a Bonanza lover, though would not operate it under EASA registration. I have flown the last two years in some bad weather the Bonanza is a great aircraft I am sure Chris can confirm this. There are two things that disturb my emotional love. Ice and convective weather….The second one is better under control with ADL now :-). Ice remains an issue….TN and TKS will solve this partially but speaking to a very experienced Pilot who had TN and TKS on his A36 flying at 20K feet for hours becomes tiring after a while you need more then 20K Feet to stay well clear.., OK he flies a jetprop meanwhile :-)….
understood that the tb20 series is a lot more useful than a bonanza in terms of money input to keep it airborne
That is a strange statement…???
On a Turbo the cylinders are considered as consumables ….
I believe you won’t find anyone making quotes about costs flying hi-performance complex aircraft are just EXPENSIVE. If you can’t spent 10% on your total income on your bird then don’t buy an aircraft. So in your case flying weekly take 100 Hours per year min you will need min 15 to 20K to keep flying…
I think a P210 is the closest you can get in your objectives, though its a bird which needs some real loving attention in maintenance :-)
I would love to TN and TKS my bird but that is a 100K investment for the engine TN and 45 K for the TKS.
I love flying my Bonanza but after end of October in general take airline flights if my trip is longer then a couple of days of assured weather prediction.
A P210 with boots would be my next upgrade if ever (there is now even an IO550TN version available)
One has to balance the emotional love with your bank account .
If it wasn’t for FIKI, a Commanche single or twin. They come very cheep, use the budget balance to upgrade the panel.
I have seen a Twin Commanche with boots, don’t know if they are “approved for FIKI” or just a practical aid.
Amazing bang for the buck, but avionics would almost certainly need upgrading and you don’t get that back in terms of increased aircraft value, so you are married to the aircraft (i.e. like a wife, to upgrade to a newer model is expensive)
While the Twinco is surely great, if you can get a C303 for comparatively little more money there can be no question what to take …
Okay give me this and I have no more further wishes
Vref wrote:
Okay give me this and I have no more further wishes
Yep, and for 100k I’m in! 
Seriously @Walter:
You don’t say where you are based, but if this is somewhere in southern Germany / Austria with travels eastward from there, then my take on your situation would be that you really need a de-iced twin to achieve half decent year-round dispatch rates. What might work in the SEP category is a P210 with TKS like this one, although a good pressurized C210 will most likely be out of your budget. Let us know what you end up buying!
Neil wrote:
I have seen a Twin Commanche with boots, don’t know if they are “approved for FIKI” or just a practical aid.
The Twin Comanche has de-icing and turbocharging as aftermarket fits. Many have one or the other, few have both because of the weight. The Twin Com was certified under CAR3, and it does have an AFMS with approval for flight in light icing conditions. It’s not up to hanging around in ice for long periods, but the de-icing adds operational utility.
blueline wrote:
While the Twinco is surely great, if you can get a C303 for comparatively little more money there can be no question what to take …
While I agree with your assertion, but I doubt we would answer the question in the same way. :)
From my personal experience…. and from following many a debate on this forum
Evidence:
– Pre IR – the usual weather cancellations. “Dispatch rate” for planned trips – maybe 50%, and also fewer trips planned.
– Post-IR, non-deiced turbo Saratoga: extensive cloud cover with icing kept me on the ground.
“Dispatch rate” went up quite a bit, maybe to 80%.
– When I was then flying TKS deiced Columbia 400 / SR22TN, icing was no longer a factor, but I would not cross fronts unless on top
“Dispatch rate” went up to 90%+. Most cancellations were due to fog, not convective weather.
– Moving to a C303 with radar – dispatch rate did not change appreciably so far, but in-flight tactics changed as I now enter IMC more readily in convective conditions when otherwise I would have avoided a bit more.
There has not been a single flight I in the twin that I would not have also flown in the SR22/Columbia, with the exception of flying to Norway across the North Sea (in a single, I would have flown shorter overwater legs and gone via the Netherlands and Denmark).
I saw no practical difference – except for the mess – between the TKS and boots. The C303 carries ice well, although I lost around 30kt airspeed in one moderate icing encounter. I had one encounter in the Columbia where a few stick-out bits clearly iced up (airspeed drop and some ice visible) and there wasn’t a trace of ice on the wings. Don’t think I had a proper icing encounter in the SR22, but with TKS it can be hard to tell…
YMMV
I think there is no aircraft where you get more bang for the buck than the TB line. There is a fully deiced Tb21 for less than 100k on controller.
I used to have a TB20 for more than 5 years and now own a TB 21 for more than 10 years. The yearly maintenance cost is not much different at all. you will feel the difference when you need to overhaul the engine.
The SR22 turbos are very nice but you won’t find any at the price point you’re looking for. I find the TBs much more comfortable to cruise in for long flights than the Mooney I used to rent. With the TB you will also be able to land and start from shorter airports than with the Mooneys. The Mooneys also sit closer to the ground and the undercarriage is not as forgiving on rough grounds compared to the trailing link gear of the TB.
I think a Turbo Arrow could also suit you and cost less but there is no contest in my view with a TB21.
