Without having verified the numbers, I do believe those numbers 250k vs. 390k are not totally off.
Remember this compares a totally bare-bones minimum equipped aircraft with a top of the line IFR equipped one.
Or are you just saying that 250k is, in absolute terms, too much for a VFR Robin (that would be a different topic though…)? Well, fact is, airplanes simply have become very expensive.
Or that nobody needs an aircraft without at least full gyro instruments today? Well…
a) some French countryside aeroclub might indeed order it like that, to teach the total basics.
b) it would not be unique to Robin to totally strip their “base model” to make the “base price” look good in the marketing brochure. It’s true not also for airplanes, but also cars, etc.
Or that nobody needs an aircraft without at least full gyro instruments today? Well…
It’s OK but it will kill you pretty fast in the “real world”.
However I do recall one old Shoreham guy telling me he used to ferry new TB20s etc from Tarbes to Biggin Hill (1980s I guess) and they were without gyros too, so the wx had to be wall to wall sunshine. However they did have blank holes in the panel… Socata were not cynical enough to sell planes with no AI etc. What Robin appears to be doing is selling a car with no seat belts.
But wouldn’t the same hold true for any new vs. used plane? I mean, €250k would pay for a very nice used VFR tourer with lots of change
Sure, but then we get into the same old “old is better value” debate, which nobody disputes 
However for under €200k you can get (say) the very best possible condition 2002/2003 TB20GT, loaded with every imaginable add-on, which will outclass the Robin in perf while being just as modern, good looking and basically “civilised”. And I don’t think you can make the “running cost” case either; the two won’t be significantly different. Both are well suited to hands-on maintenance using a friendly pragmatic outfit. Both are French so you get the same issues (loaded with parts made by some unknown company, etc, rather than off the shelf American bits) 
And the TB has an FAA TC so FAA and EASA AML STCs can be used.
This might be worth a thread on buying a new Robin – pros and cons. Then we can get some specific input – there are French pilots here. Can someone get a sales brochure and the full spec? It would be interesting since there are so few new planes. The site is here but no pricing I can find.
It’s OK but it will kill you pretty fast in the “real world”.
Thousands of Cubs and other typical VFR airplanes fly safely without gyros. If you know how to fly VFR you will never need a gyro. Also an AI is next to useless for pilots who have never learned to use them. And: IFR instruments (see the perverted German UL scene) are only tempting to “try it”.
Sorry, I don’t get the point you are trying to make.
A VFR airplane, no matter if it’s a Cub, a Robin or a Cessna, does not need gyro instruments, and it can be flow safely – in VFR conditions. It is done all over the world, in all kinds of airplanes.
You can get the Robin in a VFR version – or spend 140 K more and get a complete IFR panel. What do you not like about that?
Is that an uncertified glass cockpit in the VFR version? I cannot identify it? Some looks like the VFR version does have an AI too.
thread-drift I know… But here goes… Regarding value-for-money, and fit to mission, I’ve gone to a lot of trouble to narrow the choice down:
There are few aircraft which can take four full size adults into anything from a short-grass-strip to a 130kt+ cruise -excluding PA28s for reasons of personal prejudice (I trained in worn out ones and just can’t ever imagine feeling ‘pride’ in one)…
…I basically narrowed it down to a used c182 or a new Robin 401 2.0s (SR22 too pricey and I don’t like the spring-loaded control, Vans RV10 not available, Bonanza a possibility but I don’t know the type, TB20 doesn’t like short grass fields). (C172,TB10,SR20 all have MTOW/short strip issues)- other realistic (single aircraft) suggestions would be gratefully received.
When I flew the Robin diesel I discovered it has no vibration and blissfully quiet operation (you can talk in normal tones without headsets) sips very little JetA1 so operating costs are very low and the all-round visibility is astounding (they’ve blown the canopy out wider than in older DR400s so you can see behind you and to the ground even in the rear).
I compared annual costs of running an older Robin/C182 and even of the two groups I’m currently in, and the Diesel engine makes a new plane comparable, so why not?
Since VAT adds about €50k Euros to the new price this is a once-in-a-lifetime decision and operating costs over ten or twenty years become relevant – it works out cheaper to buy the new diesel than to maintain an older AVGAS model. I like the simple one-lever operation : no cowl flaps, carb icing, prop pitch, mixture, gear: so many fewer things I can screw up – and it can’t be shock cooled so I can share it without worry if I choose to.
In terms of options you can add all-signing, all dancing glass and autopilots to the €205k euro (€250 with vat) base price and even back-of-the envelope maths shows it doesn’t take long to make a €100 k avionics/autopilot fit – add the VAT some leather upholstery and you’re shooting at €400k – so the question is finding the least painful compromise, rather than just throwing money at it.
Here are some specs: I’m very interested in all opinions! The base prices and standard equipment lists are at
Http://www.Mistralaviation.co.uk/robin-aircraft-prices-and.html
As is said above the base ‘VFR night’ fit includes DI, AI, OAT, ASI and ALT – I’m most interested to hear if I really need a DME In addition to a Garmin 750?
First off Neal, don’t be put off from the idea to buy a new Robin. The DR400/401 is indeed very nice aircraft l and I agree that – compared with the alternatives on the market – it may be a good idea.
Unless I’ve missed sonething though, you didn’t say yet for what type of mission precisely you want to buy it. This would be important to know so we can give you advice on how to “spec it out”.
EDIT: sorry, found it.
Still, after all, you have to decide (and that is rather independent from VFR or IFR):
-do I want an autopilot? One axis or two?
-if yes, do I want to be able to couple a GPS to that AP?
If the answer is no, you can just as well go for very little avionics and stick an ipad with Skydemon in there.
-do I want glass?
Of course, any added
equipment will increase possible resale value. The question is always: by how much (compared to the initial invest)?
I think it is safe to say that buying a plane for 300k+ these days and not having a big screen glass cockpit in there can make a future resale difficult.
Compared to the Archer DX (starting at 399k$ according to the Homepage) I think the DR401 with the same engine is a better aircraft at a very competative price. The only remaining competitor would be the DA40 with the Diesel, but I dont know the 40.
The DA40 NG has a higher base price but is G1000 as standard so in fact has very comparable pricing for a glass cockpit model without autopilot (though there’s no VFR option.)
Unfortunately It has 61kg less payload so is only really a 2+2 and it needs around 70% more runway so not so much fun for short grass strips. But it CAN live outdoors if that’s important – I imagine lots of flying schools that would matter a lot. (They say the Robin can live outdoors if covered -but I wouldn’t chance that).
…
Still wondering about the issue of whether a DME is needed in addition to a Garmin 750, if anyone can help me understand?
