johnh wrote:
I have no idea why hazek is taking it so personally.
I’m not, I just am pointing out something you said that isn’t true. You said VFR is not practical for flying-to-go-places in Europe due to the complexity of the airspace. And I’m telling you that that has not been my experience and that you are wrong. It is in fact practical. I’ve done it and many others too.
Now we could perhaps start talking about how you conduct your VFR flights, and how I do it, compare and maybe arrive at an answer why you think what you think. But just restating your opinion doesn’t really help.
You know.. there is this possibility that you are not doing something correctly and are having difficulties because of it.
You said VFR is not practical for flying-to-go-places in Europe due to the complexity of the airspace.
And that is absolutely 100% my opinion, and I’m sticking to it. And it is what I will tell anyone else, too. And that’s just within a single country. Add to that the complexities of every country having its own twist on airspaces and tweaks to the regulations, and it is my heartfelt opinion that you would be completely insane to do long distance VFR across Europe, if you have the choice of doing it IFR instead. If you don’t – no IR, like 98%+ of European PPLs – you have my sympathy.
there is this possibility that you are not doing something correctly and are having difficulties because of it.
Care to suggest what this may be?
This is the airspace between Nice and Marseille. Once you know it, it actually isn’t too bad. But suppose you’re planning a flight say from Toulouse to Genoa, VFR, and you have to figure out a way through this. Possible, maybe. Practical, I don’t think so.
there is this possibility that you are not doing something correctly and are having difficulties because of it.
Hazek stop posting this pompous nonsense.
Get yourself a PPL and go places in Europe for a few years and then come back and post some experiences. All VFR.
Possible, maybe. Practical, I don’t think so.
Indeed. I can’t imagine why anybody would fly VFR long distances when the airspace is so screwed up that you need to be in continuous contact with ATC. In that case IFR is the best choice except if you find it uninteresting (as I do) in which case you’d fly only locally like many or most people in Europe. That situation did not arise due to people being irrational.
Having said that I’m thinking of getting an instrument rating after I retire. Not because I’ll use it much (probably only for departing through low lying clouds, if then) and not because I’ll enjoy it (I won’t) but just for the mental exercise when I quit working. Like doing crossword puzzles and flying simultaneously.
Lol guys, I went on a trip from Luxembourg to Innsbruck to Venice to Brac to Dubrovnik to Maribor to Salzburg back to Luxembourg. All VFR, all more or less in a straight line. Want to see my tracklogs? It works and it’s surprisingly easy.
The only denial we got was from Munich on the way back when we wanted to crossed a corner of the TMA, the rest was absolutely no hint of any resistance.
The reason why I keep posting this is not to change your opinion. You can stick to your erroneous opinions if you want. It’s the young VFR pilots that read this forum that I am addressing, so that they also hear the correct information. But you guys, you do you lol 🤣
172driver wrote:
but I really don’t understand the drama some here make it sound like.
Same here. In fact flying VFR long distances in Europe in my experience is (or can be) like flying IFR in higher altitude (and I did fly both…). “…RADAR,D-E… Flightlevel 120, inbound waypoint…” And yes, it does work internationally also. That doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t be prepared for not getting the clearance (I have a hard time trying to remember a single case where that happened), but don’t we need to be prepared for all kinds of unexpected things when flying anyway?
That doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t be prepared for not getting the clearance (I have a hard time trying to remember a single case where that happened), but don’t we need to be prepared for all kinds of unexpected things when flying anyway?
This stuff is highly country- and region-dependent.
You could fly in France all your life and never get denied, if you pick the right part.
I flew VFR all the way to Crete before I got the IR, so I know how it works. VFR is a great tool for a quick and dirty flight, which is what the vast majority of people do. It is also very useful for hacking the Eurocontrol route validation software 
Of course VFR works; it’s just that IFR is usually a lot smoother.
