How to best fly a tight turn to a landing?

I think there are many different variables here. I suspect a fast plane like the TB20 will be a bit tricky to keep the descent rate high, the speed within reason, and have a nice super tight final. I haven’t flown one, but guess they are not the type of aircraft you would normally get a steep bank and draggy slip to final. A bit of practice ought to find out what it is capable of.

A tail-dragger, especially with floats, will practically fall out of the sky in a very steep bank with a big slip. You can cross a mountain peak, put it on it’s side and fall into the valley lake. It would not be unusual for fuel to come out the vented cowling tank cap and spray onto the window, i.e. almost zero-g. I usually look in a curving arc to the final approach path and landing zone so that you can anticipate and get it all sorted out and straight for landing, but I once looked directly out the side window and was ‘alarmed’ at just how fast the ground is rushing up at you (VSI pegged above 2000ft/min).

In relation to the control of aircraft at very low altitudes (below the trees), I would be quite circumspect. I have done curved and circling take-off runs in a float plane. It is a very strange sensation, because you have a lot of yaw on the water (ball all the way to the side) and then, as you take off you get the bank angle in for coordinated flight, all the while rushing at the trees. If the space is limited, you are getting to a 45 degree bank before tree height. This is recipe for disaster if you aren’t coordinated. I always check the 45 degree stall speed (1.18*normal stall), and then add 20-30 percent so that there is substantial margin just in case you aren’t as ‘on the ball’ as you thought. For example a Champ will stall at about 38 mph, so add 18%, then 20% to get 53mph. Then check the IAS vs CAS and see if a correction needs to be applied. In the above instances, I might try to be going above 70mph (just to be safe) before doing maneuvers below the tree line.

Fuji_Abound wrote:

In the way you suggest, but continuous radius to roll out on very short final.

You mean something like Joe shows here (many of you probably know this video; skip to 2:00 for the interesting bit in case it won’t automatically):

PS: It seems local system doesn’t like youtube links with offset start (?t=time).

Peter wrote:

There is a subtle thing I had in mind. If you do a continuous turn onto final, and misjudge it and need to tighten it up to (a) avoid the hill and maybe even (b) line up with the runway, then you are in a sticky situation

You can also do a normal glider approach, which will be something in between (sort of), doing 45 deg legs. I would’t tighten up a turn (unless starting out shallow for the purpose of being able to tighten it up). Better to overshoot IMO.

Peter wrote:

Oban.

That ain’t a tight turn :-) My normal circuit would have me turning just on the inside of that caravan park :-)

Of course we fly aircraft with different characteristics, so a tight turn to you will be a wide one for me due to my final approach speed only being 50 mph. However, back on topic, I’ve always just done a normal coordinated turn – I’ve never done anything special like unload the wing. Just keep it coordinated, and make a regular medium banked turn. To make a tight circuit the downwind to final becomes a continuous 180 degree turn instead of a 90 to base, 90 to final.

To do a tight turn and get down quick, just as Canuck was saying, a slipping turn will have my aircraft take up the glide angle of a safe with the door open. Makes nailing a spot landing quite easy.

Martin – yes, which demonstrates that it is entirely possible in a twin, never mind a single. In reality I think most aircraft will perform in this way and usually something like a TB20 with uppy downy carriage will respond very well to the drag. In terms of high performance singles in fact I always found the Cirrus needed work which wasnt surprising given its absence of the u/c being configurable, the relatively ineffective primary flight surfaces and a slippery frame.

Alioth – I also dont recall Oban being a tight approach especailly as you can chink left onto final and keep it very tight. I have always found the strips where one end is in the base of a valley with an up inclimb the most interesting – not that I have attempted anything very challenging, but I had the pleasure to take an aircraft to a strip just like that on a regular occasion where you just about always landed up hill and took off down hill, in fact come to think of it I never attempted the uphill departure and not convinced I would have got airborne.

That was for me a safety criteria in favor of the 182: you can slow down and earn time, to see things coming :-)
It takes away any drama from LFMR Barcelonette, where the approach and landing don’t need tight turns.

But I am extremely impressed with the skydiver aircraft, and his tight turn very close to the ground. We can guess he had enough speed to do that safely… But wooh !