Cobalt wrote:
May I suggest a simpler approach: Bring some money.How much?
I realize that a certain amount of cultivated financial ignorance is required for aircraft ownership, but I would like to get a bit closer to knowing what my budget should be.
Mike C.
I don’t think EHS needs all that stuff, because e.g. a TBM700 had to be “EHS” from about 2004-2005. And that had the old EFIS-40 avionics. The transponder would probably have been the standard GTX330 (or the “D” dual-antenna version) which will do EHS if you feed it with the data.
In fact the GTX330 was a “technical liability” because EHS is in theory banned on aircraft which don’t need it (according to the above posted criteria) yet the GTX330 would simply radiate every parameter fed to it. And people would have it connected to their GPS for automatic AIR/GND switching based on the GPS GS, but in the process the 330 would be getting a load of other stuff e.g. heading, track, etc. see here
This would obviously mean nearly all non European Mode S equipped non-EHS-required aircraft would be illegal upon entering EU airspace, which is a farce. So nobody bothers about what parameters get radiated anymore – with GA traffic.
A few years ago I went to a UK ATC presentation on this and they had developed some software which used Mode S data to better manage multi level holding stacks at the major airports. Otherwise, there is not much evidence that most ATC units can see the data… certainly most UK ones cannot see any Mode S data (they never paid for the kit).
JasonC wrote:
While true Peter, I don’t think it is enforced.
Plausible, considering regulatory focus has probably moved away from Mode S in favour of ADS-B…
mciholas wrote:
It seems from the discussion that I need to spend a lot of time on the phone calling people in Europe to get answers on that, and based on the trip reports, you won’t really know even then as new fees and different prices seem to appear all the time without warning.
Yes unless you get a service like RR. They are not that expensive and can help with getting the info without you having to be on the phone for 8 hrs and sending out emails with no response like I did when trying to get info on a flight to Venice.
The most frustrating thing is when you call the airport number which is listed on the AIP you get general passenger info. Argh I dont have to have the airport AIP give me a damn number I can google. When you do get someone on the phone either they cant speak English or dont want to. I think that is the reason for, email us. Then there are the stupid Fax requests. Who the hell has a fax machine unless you have an office. What about when you are traveling?
In the US I would go on Fltplan.com and look up the FBO call them and get all the pricing info in 10 mins. A little longer if the girl on the other end is friendly and we chat. 
In the US I would spend 45mins to an hour flight planning which includes hotel, rental car, weather info and route filing for a 6 hr flight. In Europe its the reverse, I start flight planning a week in advance in order to collect the information necessary (hopefully), it can take hours of your time especially Greece and Italy. Unless you’ve been there and know the ropes. One of which is…… bring your AOPA card to get a handling discount. In Corfu 25 Euros instead of 125 Euros other places up to 50% off.
Regarding price and availability. Unlike the US you can land in any major airport even with a C210 here it is frowned upon. To the point where I was told “we dont want you here”. One way you will see that is with the fees they will charge you. So you will want to look up reliever airports near your destination. Some cities suck like Munich where the only real airport alternative is EDMA even though they have airports much closer. Before anyone jumps on me Im assuming he would want Customs and Immigration as well as a decent instrument approach to make it a practical trip.
Im not sure you mentioned it but what time of the year are you planning to come and for how long? A month or two?
A few years ago I went to a UK ATC presentation on this and they had developed some software which used Mode S data to better manage multi level holding stacks at the major airports. Otherwise, there is not much evidence that most ATC units can see the data… certainly most UK ones cannot see any Mode S data (they never paid for the kit).
NATS and the German sectors certainly see it. Try (well don’t actually) setting an incorrect altitude in your ALT select over London. The ATC computer will detect it and the controller will tell you. Same flying into Munich or FFT.
Ok, so it’s acionics fit, not aircraft. Any EFIS with altitude preselect, GPS, and a Garmin Mode S transponder should be able to do this. But of course a bit pointless to do for a single trip… I believe the ones who support ES do support all the EHS parameters as well.
Peter once wrote that even the low end ones can do that, inofficially.
Is there somewhere a document saying which parameters are the minimal requirement for EHS?
Very few GA planes make the AP preselect altitude available in a data stream (RS232 or ARINC429) which could be fed to a GTX330. Mine has the heading (courtesy of the SN3500 EHSI transmitting just that one item) but the AP doesn’t output the preselect. And a normal TBM700 is in a similar situation, with a KFC325 AP, AFAIK.
Peter once wrote that even the low end ones can do that, inofficially.
The GTX330, under it’s original firmware, would radiate everything wired to it. There was a firmware update which enabled the installer to disable this, for “compliance” reasons. The basic issue was that ELS v. EHS is a purely €crat invention which the rest of the avionics world (= the USA) wasn’t aware of So every GTX330 would do EHS, if the data was made available to it.
Try (well don’t actually) setting an incorrect altitude in your ALT select over London.
Like in nearly all GA planes, my AP preselect alt is not available in any form as a data stream, for connection to the TXP. I reckon this is a “glass” feature only.
That one is from 2005. It does however appear that the preselect altitude is mandatory, so I guess the TBM’s KFC325 must be doing it somehow. I wonder if any of the resident avionics guys know?
ADS-B is irrelevant to GA in Europe and will be for some years. Almost nobody is radiating it, apart from airliners. Is it mandatory on Part 25 aircraft, or something like that?
@Peter
Is it mandatory on Part 25 aircraft …?
I think FAA and EASA now have the same timeline for ADS-B out, somewhere in 2020 and EASA-wise for aircraft > 5,7tons
