You can't do that in the UK. The ADF has to be working.
It is not uncommon to have the GPS placarded INOP, and this also avoids having to train GPS procedures 
Not good....
You can't do that in the UK. The ADF has to be working.
Really? ADF is not part of the mandatory equipment for IFR in the UK as far as I know. How can it be required then? It's part of the training here as well but that is typically done in the simulator.
The ADF remains mandatory everywhere for flying an NDB procedure, officially.
Nowhere in Europe is the general US-type GPS-for-ADF substitution available, AFAIK.
I was however referring to the JAA IR flight test. You need an ADF for that - in the UK and northern Europe for sure
The last time I was in IMC and my sole nav aid was the ADF was 1994. In the real world you use GPS track guidance and "monitor" the ADF needle. In the make believe pretend fantasy world that is IF training and testing you unfortunately have to actually do all the pure NDB bollocks.
GA ADF's are not very good at the best of times and they tend to be least accurate at a 45 degree angle either side of the nose or tail, which of course is where you need good info to judge the turn to the inbound track. To identify what a particular unit is actually doing a visual turn to an inbound track over a geographic feature, that is where you can visually turn to the correct inbound track will tell you what to look for on the ADF needle on the ride. The other piece of advice is the ADF works best when you are dead level. I have found that new or rusty IF pilots tend to waggle the wings a bit. This really screws the ADF so freeze the control wheel and give the ADF 2 seconds to settle down before trusting it.
On my recent IR renewal I ended up going round the hold 5 times at Coventry, as the tower had lined up an aircraft in anticipation of its airways clearance, which London took some time to issue. Whilst a little frustrating at the time, it became fun trying to improve the accuracy each time, just using the ADF.
I have an unsophisticated aircraft with an RBI presentation ADF. I do a gross error check on the inbound turn at 45 degrees to go, allowing for a bit of dip error, which gives me an idea of what to expect at the rollout. If the needle is high, then I'll roll off a bit of bank; low, and I'll know to roll through the anticipated inbound heading by 10 degrees. As posted above above, the trick when rolling out is to hold wings level on your expected inbound heading for a couple of seconds, assess the correction to be made, if any, and apply it without further delay.
Hello!
Interesting thread... (I just discovered it now). I got my IFR more than 20 years ago and my IR instructor's license almost 10 years ago and never heard of these things! I also never had to fly an NDB holding in real life and if I ever have to do it, I will use my FMS, GPS, iPad, smartphone or whatever I have got with me, but certainly not the ADF (on one of the rare occasions when I had to actually fly a hold, I think at Schiphol, I flew single-hand with no autopilot and couldn't get my charts out in time, so I simply followed a nice blue KLM 737 1000ft above us. That was probably the most precise hold I ever did ;-) ).
Regarding instructing and checkrides: I have been instructed and instruct (in accordance with the training syllabus of our FTO) to rollout on the inbound heading without Looking at the ADFat all because of all it's errors during turns. Then, when the wings are level, take your bearing from the ADF and, if necessary, re-intercept the inbound track. This method got me through more than 20 LPCs and another 20 OPCs and countless students through their checkrides, so ist can't be totally wrong.
Thanks. I started this thread. I think my IMCr examiner is a bit over-zealous when it comes to ADF holds. The whole business I originally mentioned of subtracting 15 and adding 10 seems over the top. From what I have read here it seems even IR examiners accept all of the deficiencies with ADF's and in the skills test one doesnt need to be as precise as an airline pilot with a bunch of better tools and equipment. That's a relief :-)
It's a sad comment to make but at every level in flight training one needs to watch out for individuals and businesses who gold plate the requirements to make extra money.
If I was teaching somebody to fly safely (and I am not an instructor but have been flying IFR since 2002) I would make sure they can fly an ILS down to 200ft reliably, and can fly any approach plate I stick under their nose using the available equipment. So flying an NDB approach using a GPS in the OBS mode is fine. One can't do that in the JAA IR (the ADF is supposed to be used) but there is no requirement to teach or examine the "gate" method.
If you want to do a JAA IR without having NDB procedures in the test, you need to go to FIS (not FTE) at Jerez in Spain, or some schools in Greece, and probably other places "down south".
When you enter a training establishment for some specific bit of training, you have to clear with them what their requirements are. If they are over the top, go elsewhere.
... it seems even IR examiners accept all of the deficiencies with ADF's ...
Here in Germany, IFR examiners accept it if you make use of every (certified) piece of NAV kit on board, so NDB holdings usually get flown with the OBS mode of the Garmin GNS 430/530 which is installed in all our training aircraft. After all, we live in the year 2012 and not 1924!
IFR examiners accept it if you make use of every (certified) piece of NAV kit on board, so NDB holdings usually get flown with the OBS mode of the Garmin GNS 430/530 which is installed in all our training aircraft.
That's excellent, and I have heard the same from a Swiss pilot in 2010, but it is suprising.
