Mooney_Driver wrote:
For IFR, we are talking a whole different ballgame. To make a non-IFR plane IFR is quite a financial undertaking, so it is almost always better to buy a IFR certified plane and work from there. Basically today, what you need to properly fly IFR is a proper GPS/GNS which is RNP 5 certified, or a WAAS GPS if you want to do LPV approaches (which is the coming thing) you do need two 8.33 COM/NAV, a DME, Mode S Transponder and preferrably an 2 axis autopilot as well as either a HSI or a EFIS like the Aspen EFD1000.
On aircraft which don’t have an FAA TCDS (as well) it might be hard to get most modern avionics upgrades. Quite a lot of avionics come with an AML STC. As most manufacturers are American, their AML STC only list aircraft which have an FAA TCDS. The EASA AML STC is then based on the FAA AML STC, so lacks some aircraft. Robin DR400 is a good example, where most free of charge AML STC are not applicable, as they don’t have an FAA TCDS.
Thanks Jesse. And if a popular plane like the DR400 doesn’t have them, then I don’t think the Aiglon would.
What makes me wonder though. A friend of mine has a Jodel which has an Aspen EFD installed. How did they do that. I suppose the Jodel is Annex 2, does that change anything? And what Annex is the Aiglon?
The Robins with FAA Type Certificates are the R2160 and the R3000/160.
I think about ten R2160s were sold in the US. I doubt you’d find either model on a lot of FAA STC Approved Model Lists but you never know. Sometimes the AML is a shotgun blast of every possible aircraft model.
This N-registered R2160 is interesting, I’d imagine its never been in the US.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
How did they do that.
It can be done, it would just be more expensive. If it’s Annex 2, then it depends (they are regulated at the national level as far as airworthiness is concerned). And DR400 is in production (well, it’s now DR401, not sure what difference it makes) and is offered with modern avionics (G500, Aspen and GTN 650/750 are included). So there is a decent chance it can be rather painlessly upgraded.
Martin wrote:
It can be done, it would just be more expensive. If it’s Annex 2, then it depends (they are regulated at the national level as far as airworthiness is concerned).
Correct. With being more expensive, this could be a significant number. If your into multiple upgrades AND for IFR this can become quite costly. In that case it might be better to look for an aircraft with has en FAA STC. Silvairs comment is valid as well, if they are not on the AML because they are basically “unknown” then it would still be expensive.
Martin wrote:
And DR400 is in production (well, it’s now DR401, not sure what difference it makes) and is offered with modern avionics (G500, Aspen and GTN 650/750 are included). So there is a decent chance it can be rather painlessly upgraded.
While this is true for new aircraft, unfortunatly this is not true for the old versions, which require additional certification at additional cost.
Is it not the case that any GPS can be installed on an N reg on a Field Approval, and only EFIS products need an STC?
IOW, an STC for say a GTN750 just lubricates the process.
Unfortunately on EASA a GTN750 would be a Major so very expensive.
The answer depends entirely on the condition of the plane you find. Could make a lot of sense at the right price, but be careful about neglected planes. Don’t forget Rallyes (I have a 180HP version). As people have pointed out, making it IFR will cost you.
Jesse wrote about Robins:
“While this is true for new aircraft, unfortunatly this is not true for the old versions, which require additional certification at additional cost”.
There’s already an EASA STC for retrofit of G500 with GNS430W/530W across all DR300/400, and now a factory SB for G500 when combined withGTN750/650, although it’s only available from CEAPR in France or Gama Aviation in the UK. Shortly there will be a stand-alone GTN approval for IFR without the G500 as well.
Peter wrote:
Is it not the case that any GPS can be installed on an N reg on a Field Approval, and only EFIS products need an STC
This is a point that always confuses me, in the opposite way, when I see it brought up. It’s not clear to me that from the FAA’s point of view installing anything requires an STC, if you’re only intending to do it to one plane.
AFAIK EFIS and autopilot need an STC.
