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The secret is to fly more and the hourly cost comes down. :)
We’ve only met once, just fleetingly.
Just long enough to learn that you and I move in different worlds…
:-) :-)
GA_Pete wrote:
Roughly speaking 7hrs each way plus fees and accommodation circa 7k for a long weekend away?
No, because the ~10k or so are fixed costs which you’ll pay whether you go to Montenegro or not. The trip of a proposed Montenegro trip (as an owner) would only be your variable costs. If you’re an owner it’s critical not to think of “If I go flying 2 hours it’ll cost me £800” because this will mean your hourly costs actually go up (because you’ll fly less). In reality the incremental cost of doing a 2 hour flight will be however much the fuel and oil costs.
If you’re someone who enjoys being proactive with maintenance, going permit can be an *up*grade, not a downgrade depending on the kind of flying you do (e.g. it wouldn’t be an upgrade for Peter, I’m sure – but for me I would not consider a certified type right now due to the extra bullshit that comes with owning one). You get two advantages – you are now allowed to actually touch your plane, as well as getting away from companies that can hold you over a barrel.
A_and_C wrote:
10k sounds about right for an aircraft that has been looked after
How would you break this down?
A typical annual inspection is about 4 days, which you multiply by the daily rate for (a) freelancer or (b) a company (and the two rates will be very different).
A TB20 annual parts kit is of the order of 500 quid.
The only way to achieve 10k is by gold plating the panel 
Roughly speaking 7hrs each way plus fees and accommodation circa 7k for a long weekend away?
It would cost you just the DOC (direct operating cost, dominated by the cost of fuel these days) for x hours.
Much less than 7k.
Figures like 500 quid an hour (for an SEP) are just numbers which one gets by taking the total annual costs of a hangar queen (a plane that almost never flies) and dividing it by some very small numbers of hours, e.g. 20. I could do the same exercise for my lawn mower, which probably nowadays costs 1000 quid to buy and since few people these days under the age of 100 have the tech skills to fix a lawn mower, if it packs up you are often forced to buy a new one, so if you cut the grass 10 times before it packs up, it has cost you 100 quid each time to cut the grass, which is obviously ridiculous (your wife will quickly point out, or perhaps not, that it is cheaper to rent a handsome gardener to do it ). Equally ridiculous to own a plane and fly 20hrs a year.
You get two advantages – you are now allowed to actually touch your plane, as well as getting away from companies that can hold you over a barrel.
This is also called “being N-reg” and having a freelance A&P/IA and then you can be certified i.e. have your cake and eat it.
No, because the ~10k or so are fixed costs which you’ll pay whether you go to Montenegro or not. The trip of a proposed Montenegro trip (as an owner) would only be your variable costs.
You are correct of course, but the hard cash has to be spent. If you do the summs at the end of the year and can get (without cutting corners) down to 4.5k / 5.5k for an annual that stings a little less.
There’s no secret that I’m playing a delicate game ( financially) as an owner of something capable, in an upgrade to having been a shareholder in something markedly less so.
Fingers crossed as I am enjoying it but can’t guarantee to sustain it.
My owner assisted C182 annual is $600, plus whatever we find. I could never afford to fly properly in the EU. It’s clear that the authorities are hell bent on killing GA, from the crazy prices quoted.
My owner assisted C182 annual is $600, plus whatever we find. I could never afford to fly properly in the EU. It’s clear that the authorities are hell bent on killing GA, from the crazy prices quoted.
Can I come and live with you? That sounds idealic. :-)
Katamarino wrote:
My owner assisted C182 annual is $600, plus whatever we find. I could never afford to fly properly in the EU. It’s clear that the authorities are hell bent on killing GA, from the crazy prices quoted.
I pay my A&P IA about $200 for the basic inspection plus some more for maintenance odds and ends (targets of opportunity mostly chosen by me) that he and I typically do together. It was about that much IIRC ($500 or 600) for his labor last year, plus parts. I do much of the hands on work and buy the parts directly from the supplier, he has no interest in chasing parts but in a former career he was a helicopter mechanic and is very skilled at tricky jobs. He also has a fantastic tool collection and good workshop in his hangar, should we need it. We work together and I sure appreciate his help as well as the logbook legalities.
Whatever model is being pursued in the EU for aircraft maintenance must be wacko if it results in the prices being mentioned. The only European currency in which I’d be willing to pay 5000 for an annual inspection would be Kuna, and that would need to include oil and filters 
The worst part is that mechanics hardly make a good living with those prices. Their hourly rates are lower than a car mechanic… They are basically swamped with paperwork, which of course adds nothing to safety. There is some effort from the regulator to make the maintenance framework more proportionate, but GA will be irremediably broken by the time that comes through. We’re likely the last generation to be able to enjoy flying as a hobby.
Just spoke to a MU-2 owner I know. His annual was $7K, where the flat fee inspection was $6K of those. They didn’t even call him with an estimate, they just went ahead and fixed it as there was almost nothing to do. He put 250hrs on it last year. Not bad.
my organization currently charges:
50Hr insp. 255EUR + materials
100Hr insp.610EUR + materials
AD/SB,aditional tasks 50EUR/MHr
Last annual was 6000, but more than half were one time items, like installation of new radio, all new hoses , new front strut tube etc..
