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Biggin Hill EGKB now permanently PPR / general PPR discussion

You could say that about any accident.

I do am saying that about the vast majority of accidents. But in this specific case we are discussing PPR, and your example has nothing to do with that. No sidestepping please.

The PPR requirement may be unnecessary faff, in certain cases, as it does seem to be for Biggin Hill. But to call it a source of risk or danger is nonsense. It is after all an administrative measure, not an operational one.

Last Edited by at 02 Jan 18:41
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Jan – you just are not getting what I’m saying. You’re saying – “show me where that has happened”, and I’m saying “it will happen”.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 02 Jan 18:43

Come on Jan. “Just declare an Emergency and all is well” – it isn’t easy like that, especially for students!

EDLE

Pfff. I could as well state “Adam Frisch will make a wheels up landing one day” – with far better statistical support. Or perhaps you already have?

And you’ll excuse me to remind you that you did state “happens all the time”, later even “It has happened”, not “this is sure to happen one day”. I am still waiting to learn when and where such an incident did happen, where a student pilot requested landing and was refused for lack of PPR.

Last Edited by at 02 Jan 18:53
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

@Europaxs: I never stated “Just declare an emergency”. I did state that no aerodrome will, to my knowledge and experience, refuse a landing to a pilot who is in trouble. Only then did I add that, should it happen nonetheless, an emergency can still be declared, and a student pilot should not be allowed to solo before knowing that fact at least theoretically.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

What happens all the time is refusal of in-air PPR, that’s what I meant. Happened to me in the UK many times, even by airfields who were not printed PPR at the time (Goodwood), but just liked to do it anyway. When I stressed it didn’t say so in Pooleys, they relented but were pissy all the way down, chastising me for not having called in before.

But there are other scenarios one could easily think of as well. A deviation of medical nature, or just for relief. A cancelled IFR flight plan and they won’t let you in VFR etc. All of these could be potential safety hazards. Things change in aviation, we’re not trains that can only go to one place and do it on time.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 02 Jan 19:02

OK, that may have happened in the UK. Remember what Peter wrote about blown personalities and all that. No lack of those, indeed, more’s the pity. I can imagine some fields in Belgium where the same might perhaps happen. Still, where’s the danger or risk factor in that?

I can live with your dislike for the PPR idea – I never was a big fan of it, either, but learned to accept it as a fact of pilot’s life – but please keep things reasonable.

Last Edited by at 02 Jan 18:59
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Happened to me in the UK many times, even by airfields who were not printed PPR at the time (Goodwood)

I have never flown to Goodwood (can drive there in 1/2 of the time, but there is nothing useful nearby anyway) but that is non-ATC. It is fairly common for non-ATC (A/G or AFIS) airfields to act strangely (and many reports of it here re e.g. Germany too).

It is very rare for UK ATC airfields to act unprofessionally. The only one I can recall off hand is Cranfield, who for years used to treat visitors with contempt, until the big flying schools there went bust… then they changed

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Flyer59 wrote:

at least we enjoy the freedom to fly to any of these airports in Germany whenever we want.

No you don’t. Only during “opening hours”, and provided someone answers the radio.

LFPT, LFPN

Within the opening hours the radio will be answered. At least i have never experienced something else.

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