GER, we have four times as many accidents per plane (two times as many per pilot) as in certified a/c.
Coming back on the accident statistics, I just went to the website of the German BfU, which is involved in investigating accidents (www.bfu-web.de). According to their data (German registered airplanes only), the statistic seems not as bad as we might believe.
For instance, in 2017 there were 64 accidents where SEP were involved, and only 8 accidents with “others” (i.e. Microlights). TMGs had 10, and balloons also 8 accidents…
In 2016 there were 66 with SEP, and 7 with “others”.
So the picture does not be that dark for Microlights, which has surprised me as I expected a massively higher number. But that only includes German aircraft. And when one would like to digest these numbers properly, kne would put them jn relationship with the number of flights of the respective airplane types. However, the absolute numbers of accidents appears reassuring to me – have I missed anything?
There is a lot of risk compensation going on in GA. So you have to take into account the mission profile for a particular aircraft type or class, versus what you might be doing with it. For example if certain classes tend to fly mainly on sunny Sundays and within a 50nm radius and in surface wind under 5kt (a bit of a joke but you get the idea) but you are thinking of buying one to fly all over the place, then your risk profile will be different from what the accident stats imply. It is sad but true that a lot of GA sits in a hangar for 6 months of the year, more or less, especially on the strip scene which suffers from water-logging. There is also the reporting profile; if certain classes fly mostly on the private grass strip scene then accidents which don’t result in hospital treatment are likely to go unreported.
Also bear in mind that a large % of purchases of already-built homebuilts are a disaster. Many stories… and many more which have never been posted. It’s probably because most builders are not “engineers” and since ~99% of them never build another one, they learnt everything on the one they built. A good prebuy by a type specialist is essential.
actually I do not want to spend a level of 15k per year and thus am also looking into other classes (Microlight, Experimental) or “cheaper” ELA1 aircraft. To me it is basically either buying UL or Exp. or continue renting SEP, i.e. keeping things unchanged until kids getting older and me having more time.
To my view, ownership is mostly/ always more expensive compared to renting, so it is not a pure numbers game. For me, in my current living situation, it is more the question of utilization of the own plane.
As you asked for a clear number, I would guesstimate a level of say below 7-8k p.a., which appears unrealistic for a SEP, not only because of local hangar prices.
@Peter – fully agree. At the end of the day all these numbers are ‘rough guesses’, not to say BS. Although I was surprised by the low numbers (and there might be a huge level of unreported stuff). However, what I would be interested in would be levels of accidents because of structural issues with the plane, excluding the largest risk element, which is the pilot.
MikeWhiskey wrote:
I would guesstimate a level of say below 7-8k p.a
Not including depreciation, that’s 150€/h if you fly 50h/a. This may be easily achievable in Germany if you fly a non-fancy Microlight with Rotax or a non-fancy C90/O200-Plane like Menestrel, Emeraude (careful with the spar!), Cherry, maybe a Morane… A shared T-box (low wing plus high wing) as well as a 2-owner-shared ownership may help to keep costs down. In case something important breaks down, a microlight or an experimental may be (way?) cheaper to get fixed.
Paying the premium for ownership is well worth it (if you can manage the costs) for the huge gain in independence and flexibility IMHO.
The mentioned level of course would not include depreciation, etc – as presumably you don´t calculate this with your second car neither. Clearly, one cannot expect to fly a nice Cirrus for that amount. Actually, one of the advantages of ownership includes the flexibility of using the plane. From my view, although it might not be that much of an issue in real life, a shared ownership limits the flexibility – and frankly, I don´t want to ask / inform anyone (except wife 
) when taking the plane I (co-)own.
Frankly, CHF 7-8k all-in budget per year is quite optimistic for Switzerland, if you add everything up. Most pilot-owners I know never calculate what they actually spend all-in, and when actually doing it, the initial estimates are usually on the low side.
Just a few numbers, I’m sure I forgot lots of smaller stuff which adds up:
I have a Technoflug Piccolo (certified TMG with 23 hp engine, single-seater), based in its trailer on a rural airstrip in Switzerland. This airplane is probably as cheap as it gets in maintenance, fuel, running cost, and when I add everything up, it costs me around CHF 5-6k to fly 50 hours. But it’s not a “motorplane” for mountain flying or traveling. But last year, I had to spend CHF 1000 to the trailer (brakes, front wheel assembly), and another CHF 500 to fix the device to attach the wings without help — and the whole calculation is thrown apart.
With the above, in the most favorable case, you already reach CHF 9k in Switzerland. Germany would be cheaper due to cheaper hangarage.
By the way, there has been lots of Switzerland-specific cost discussion on a Swiss pilot forum (not sure if I’m allowed to mention it), which came to a similar conclusion. Euroga forum member @mooney_driver is a pilot-owner, very knowledgeable, and is also Zürich-based. Maybe he can give you some more insight.
Finally, I just want to mention that Experimental doesn’t necessarily mean cheaper flying.
Syndicates of just two people tend to work well. Just make sure you both get on, have enough money to not worry about it, and there is no “dependency” e.g. one of them is expected to do all the maintenance (but isn’t getting some payoff for it). As in business, never go into a “partnership” just because you need somebody else’s money
If hangarage is a dominant cost, a syndicate is the obvious way forward.
We don’t have a policy on mentioning other forums. The first point is that most such instances don’t bring any value. The second point is that in the past we had certain (thankfully very few) people, with some long term grudge to exercise, posting windups / mod baits, and often it is done in a manner which makes the mod look like a dictator (there is a more accurate English word, starting with “c” ). We do have a policy on posting links to sites behind a paywall (that one started WW3 ) and for obvious reasons: such posts are basically useless. In general, if a good point is to be made, or good information posted, it is better to post it here on EuroGA; we have a huge audience, and we have good discussions, not least because people don’t beat each other up.
Zorg wrote:
CHF 7-8k all-in budget per year is quite optimistic for Switzerland, if you add everything up
Totally agree. As I mentioned, operating a SEP with that budget is rather unrealistic in Switzerland. But I have no issues postponing buying a SEP once time constraints allow for more flexibility = more time to fly = increasing the budget. But clearly, that budget number was rather a ball park level instead of a hard limit – who maintains exactly how much was spent for a hobby….? And things like Skydemon, member club fees etc I would not add to the budget thoughts when buying a plane (but yeah, the border between creative accounting and fooling oneself is a grey zone ). So either I find something UL / EXP fulfilling the purpose or I continue renting for the time being. I have the luxury situation of having a very good club close by and hence am not in a hurry having to find something urgently soon to get into the air. And like you mentioned, there is no free lunch…
I see you are based in Western Switzerland, right? Should you cross the border towards Eastern Switzerland let me know, I owe you some drinks for your advice & comments! I know the Swiss forum and read from @mooney_driver regularly there and here as well.
MikeWhiskey wrote:
Should you cross the border towards Eastern Switzerland
