Peter wrote:
But then I don’t have as much room in the cockpit as you have
You have got a lot more than I do mate… I am keeping a S2 aside for this purpose, once I can get a proper receiver so I can put it someplace on eye level.
Ah yes, to our avionic guys: I got my power flarm installed and approved. Can I still get a line out from that PF to my Garmin 695 to show the traffic there?
The regulator is, unfortunately, not helping.
Insistence on SIL-3 and the corresponding cost is because the regulatory driver is separation, which needs to work 99.99999% of the time.
While what really adds value in most cases is widespread adoption of something that works 99.9% of the time, because it is much better than the eyeball which barely works, and the only reason we don’t get more prangs is that the sky is quite big.
The FAA action against SIL-0 devices is the ATC gun shooting into the FAA’s safety foot.
Peter wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of somebody going straight from non-TXP to ADS-B. Is it necessary to get a Mode S TXP for ADS-B?Can one fly radiating ADS-B but not Mode S?
AIUI, In Europe, ADS-B is only carried on 1080-ES so the Mode-S transponder is required. In the US there is also UAT. (I’m not sure if the FAA ADS-B mandate is that UAT is required, or either UAT or 1080ES).
So therefore in Europe, if you’re radiating ADS-B, you’re also by necessity radiating Mode-S, so ATC and fancy TCAS/TAS systems already get their required position information from the Mode-S part alone. Adding SIL-0 ADS-B should be quite inexpensive and will allow cheap devices that can’t interrogate Mode-S transponders to also be able to see your position, the expensive kit like what you have in your panel is already benefitting from the transponder and having SIL-3 ADS-B isn’t going to make much difference to you because you can already see the traffic because of the Mode-S transponder.
Peter wrote :
I was thinking more along the lines of somebody going straight from non-TXP to ADS-B. Is it necessary to get a Mode S TXP for ADS-B?
The UK CAA, NATS and the various GA
Associations have a electronic conspicuity working group looking at that. They produced a report including a spec last spring: www.caa.co.uk/CAP1391
I believe they tested some prototypes.
All this ADS-B OUT/IN Shake it all about is far too confusing for a poor pilot like me. In about 10 years time do you think someone/anyone will be able to clearly define what I will need to fly spam-can around the UK and Europe? What about the proposed Single European Sky initiative (27-1 countries all with different ideas)? Where’s that going? I think there should be a freeze on all these equipment changes until the units are made out of concrete.
This will IMHO never be relevant in Europe to VFR OCAS.
And for ad-hoc VFR transits of bits of CAS, there will be exemptions.
Like Mode S really 
Like all transponder carriage
The Mk 1 Eyeball continues to rule!
The FAA is insisting on at least one pairing of a position source and an ADS-B Out device via an STC before that specific pair can be used by a certified aircraft. They have had way too many issues with the first pairing to relax that requirement. So the GNS430W/530W has been paired with a Trig TT31, but there isn’t a pairing with an IFD540 with the Trig, even though the interface is the same ADS-B Out +. It just has to be demonstrated on one installation via an STC, then others may copy it.
See this FAA website. It shows the numbers for aircraft compliance and it also lists NPE (Non Performing Emitter) installations. NPE systems don’t meet the mandate but are broadcasting. They are mostly installation issues, but many are due to uncertified position sources that simply don’t provide the necessary data.
NCYankee wrote:
See this FAA website. It shows the numbers for aircraft compliance and it also lists NPE (Non Performing Emitter) installations. NPE systems don’t meet the mandate but are broadcasting. They are mostly installation issues, but many are due to uncertified position sources that simply don’t provide the necessary data.
Essentially there are more good emitting ADS-B GA aircraft in the US than the entire European GA fleet….
Peter wrote:
I don’t think so, Jesse. How many transponders did I see across quite an aviation-popular bit of France yesterday? Zero.
Ok, there might be other countries than UK only. In the Netherlands, and Germany it is very rare to have an aircraft without mode S turned on. I do expect the Dutch GA fleet to have a better 95% coverage on mode S (non mode S limits you to flying under 1200 Ft and not allow you inside controlled airspace, so limits your flying seriously). Transponders are also common in Gliders soaring. I just know three Dutch aircraft without transponder, all three of them are pre-war aircraft.
It seems Aviathors post is contradicting your post as well.
Peter wrote:
Generally speaking almost nobody will do anything unless there is a benefit to them. Today, in the Shoreham circuit, none of several planes were transponding, and two of them were invisible at critical moments, with separation being achieved only by me being cleared to 1600ft (circuit + 500ft). Both could have had Mode C. Neither was short of money…
This is a huge benefit of ADS-B (and Flarm, though it has limitations). It can be had at relatively low cost. Many other avionics upgrade on the bottom end of the market, an avionics upgrade can easily more, or several times more than the aircrafts value. This doesn’t make sense in many cases.
Peter wrote:
Sure, but almost nobody will install a “partial fix” unless it is virtually free and takes up no room.
It can be virtually free, very few aircraft don’t have any GPS at all these days, most transponders accept NMEA, so can accept even an handheld when used in craddle.
Peter wrote:
I am not interested in spending money on something which is as useful as say FLARM which is used by practically nobody unless you happen to be flying in just the right area.
Again, it seems that geographic location is the key. Reading your post, their should be more support for Transponder / ADS-B / Flarm and get awareness. Have you every talked too pilots which you didn’t see on your TAS unit? Did you show them your TAS unit and explained why it could be valueable for both them and yourself to enable their transponder?
Peter wrote:
so one has to run all 10 gray-code wires around the aircraft
No need for that, I never did use gray code. Did you have your gray code tested / read out at the TAS box, if there is an issue here that might also explain why you don’t see certain aircraft (e.g. it might think you are at a diffent altitude and thus use a different protection area then the area your flying in.
Xtophe wrote:
Do tranponder held 90% of the market?
In the Netherlands, for sure.
Xtophe wrote:
The fact that certified TAS system ignore SIL-0 is not helpful. It should at least be an option. You can always make the blob larger to represent the lower precision. In any ucase it’ll be way better than the azimutal precision of TAS. Yes there is the odd case where the uncertified GPS will give a completly erroneous position and , IMC, you might deviate for nothing but that’s overweighed by seing the other traffic.
I agree with you. From experiance, the change on a failing transponder is higher than that of a failing GPS.
Xtophe wrote:
It sounds like for the same money you better install a PowerFlarm than upgrade your TAS.
Yes it is, the downside is that it would be nicer, especially for higher end aircraft, to have both on the same display, such that non ADS-B targets are still shown (with bearing).
Xtophe wrote:
In the UK, the LAA and BMAA have very simple mod/process to allow connecting uncertified GPS to transponder. So I expect the number of SIL-0 sqawker will increase.
I am sure they increase.
alioth wrote:
So therefore in Europe, if you’re radiating ADS-B, you’re also by necessity radiating Mode-S, so ATC and fancy TCAS/TAS systems already get their required position information from the Mode-S part alone. Adding SIL-0 ADS-B should be quite inexpensive and will allow cheap devices that can’t interrogate Mode-S transponders to also be able to see your position, the expensive kit like what you have in your panel is already benefitting from the transponder and having SIL-3 ADS-B isn’t going to make much difference to you because you can already see the traffic because of the Mode-S transponder.
Exactly, this post is spot on. There for we shouldn’t try to ignore ADS-B by writing it will never be mandatory. This is an extremely affordable safety feature, more users should be stimulated.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
I got my power flarm installed and approved. Can I still get a line out from that PF to my Garmin 695 to show the traffic there?
Yes you could, you could refer to CS-STAN which allows a moving map and power flarm installation.
