Peter wrote:
Most of the people in these countries don’t speak another language
Sounds like a visit to Portugal is due for you ;). (Sadly they need to fix that NOTAM but that’s another thing)
In most countries in order to get an RT License you need to do English RT and an LPC Level 4 at English. Most international airports ONLY accept English.
The fact that the French claim that they are incapable of doing this, is ridiculous. If everyone else can, so can they. It’s a question if they want or not. I’ve encountered many French people who speak excellent English but also a good bunch (even in the French part of Switzerland) who flatly refuse out of nationalistic or xenophobic arguments (hate the US or the Brits) Well, bully for them.
Doing RT in any language one is not sufficiently capable of is a huge risk and I would be very hesitant to do it. I speak French fairly fluently as well as Bulgarian, but I would not dream of doing RT in either without training and if possible an RT rating and LPC in the language. Some posters have said it, it is not so much the speaking but the understanding part. You may well be capable of uttering the necessary phrases but will you understand a complex clearance or even a traffic warning? No chance in hell unless you know the exact terminology.
So, I’m sorry to speak like that, but if you don’t have a valid French R/T rating, stay the heck of french-only airfield circuits. Otherwise, that is really an accident waiting to happen.
Thankfully, that’s not the view of the French government. I don’t have a “French R/T rating”, but the DGAC has authorised me to use airports and airfields which are clearly “French-only”.
I don’t pretend to understand 100% of what I hear on the radio in France, or in the U.K. for that matter, but we can always ask to say again. I’ve never encountered a negative response to such a request.
Broadening this discussion slightly, when we hear one or more foreigners on a frequency, how many of us make a conscious effort to speak a little more slowly and clearly for their benefit? Is that what we used to call airmanship, or just good manners?
Jacko wrote:
I don’t have a “French R/T rating”, but the DGAC has authorised me to use airports and airfields which are clearly “French-only”.
Same. For instance for the out of hours Toussus LFPN extension.
Native speaker but UK licence (no endorsement). I think common sense prevails, and all the fuss about it only happens on the internet.
Same as the rule requiring ATC to be in french with French. Only happens on the internet. In practice, you not-so-rarely hear english over the waves, between french pilot and french ATC.
Cases I remember: A french ATC training a french pilot in english while he was doing circuits (there was only us and him)
Couple month ago, a Government flight (callsign COTAM XXX going ATC in english with Villacoublay)
ATC or I often switch between english / french, and neither side complains or points any rule. Things just work and are easy, but the internet doesn’t make it seem so!
The core of the consultation is about forcing French pilots to use English language at the following international airports:
PARIS-CHARLES DE GAULLE (LFPG), PARIS-ORLY (LFPO), NICE-COTE D’AZUR (LFMN), BALE-MULHOUSE (LFSB), LYON–SAINT-EXUPERY (LFLL) et MARSEILLE-PROVENCE (LFML).
The subject is not about using English at uncontrolled airports.
French are not as obsessed with the letter of the law as the brits . For example, flying to Calais the other week, IFR. Lilles had just released a brit to Calais frequency, with serious doubts about his capacity to speak French. Said controller, just before releasing us, informed us that their was a brit on the frequency and asked us if we spoke English (when Calais was FR-only). We did, and continued with Calais passing messages in both languages and all was fine.
But, if there were to be a problem due to the communication difficulties, then the pilot would have been in trouble. So, in short and in practice it puts the responsibility with the pilot. A cheat sheet is fine, as long as you don’t have to understand what others are saying. I for one would not fly to a busy airfield in a foreign language.
Link to consultation (could only find the French version)
http://www.ffa-aero.fr/SITEFFAPROD_WEB/sarbacane/Projet_AIC_Bilinguisme.pdf
Peter wrote:
Most of the people in these countries don’t speak another language and, in some of them particularly, won’t even if they can So you get silly stuff like the tourist office in Zaragoza speaking only Spanish
That’s not my experience of Zaragoza (or Spain in general). I have to keep asking people to “please speak to me in Spanish because I won’t learn anything otherwise!” Most of them seem to be falling over themselves to speak to me in English, even if they are terrible at it (possibly for the same reason I would prefer they spoke to me in Spanish).
In Cataluña I have found they would far rather speak to you in English than in Spanish, although I suspect they’d be all over you if you were a Catalan speaker.
172driver wrote:
Have to disagree here, Timothy. In a former life (many, many moons ago), I was a translator / interpreter. Believe me, after hours of live interpreting and constantly switching between languages your brain is fried.
I’ve never been an interpreter, but I was at a (technical) talk in Spain with some friends from the UK who don’t speak Spanish. After 20 minutes of doing real time translating, I had a cracking headache. It’s truly exhausting.
Basoutos wrote:
The core of the consultation is about forcing French pilots to use English language at the following international airports:
PARIS-CHARLES DE GAULLE (LFPG), PARIS-ORLY (LFPO), NICE-COTE D’AZUR (LFMN), BALE-MULHOUSE (LFSB), LYON–SAINT-EXUPERY (LFLL) et MARSEILLE-PROVENCE (LFML).
ATC or I often switch between english / french, and neither side complains or points any rule. Things just work and are easy, but the internet doesn’t make it seem so!
simon32 wrote:
Sometimes French ATC reply to me in English as that is my accent.
They do it to me too, but definitely not because of my accent. Sometimes I reply in English, sometimes I ask to say again.
I once switched to French after landing and that seemed to irritate the controller who insisted on continuing in English.
