AIUI, ESP is there to save you from a gross loss of control (much more likely in IMC) which normally would lead to exceeding Vne in under 10 seconds (in any plane; a TB20 will certainly be at/past Vne in well under 10 seconds in a 80-90 degree roll) and that would be hard to recover from before something falls off.
They just make you sweat like a pig, you learn little because your brain is on overload
and that is a sure sign that one needs more training and practice. A T&G, or balked landing, or go-around should be trained to proficiency so as to morph into normal maneuvers.
If, following proper training, the described symptoms persist, an acceptance of one’s own limitations might be a safer option, and a change to a non-complex aircraft a safe exit…
Linking your feet to the throttle is something that is usually seen as good practice but in trainer aircraft it’s not usually a safety issue even during a go around. Cirrus (especially SR22) is just powerful enough where if you don’t instinctively use your feet you might just not remember in a high stress situation like this pilot encountered. I don’t know anything about the pilot but I did see he purchased the SR22 recently so maybe he was used to flying less powerful airplanes and the strength of the yaw just caught him by surprise. One thing that can also help in not getting into this situation is to accelerate in the ground effect to a safe speed before climbing away. I think practicing T&Gs is great to build this instinct because in a high stress situation you won’t have time to think it through.
Parthurnax wrote:
Cirrus (especially SR22) is just powerful enough where if you don’t instinctively use your feet you might just not remember in a high stress situation like this pilot encountered.
I’m actually with Dan on this one. If you apply full power, the SR22 will yaw to the left (like most other SEP aircraft). I you don’t “remember” to use right rudder in that situation, you should not be flying. Simple as that.
Btw, the SR22’s power-to-weight-ratio is 0,19. That is not exceptionally high. For reference, our little microlight has 0,24 (both at MTOM).
Dan wrote:
the described symptoms persist
I always sweat during intensive IFR Approach training practices with my Bonanza even more when its warm outside its like managing a steamboat during a go around but I love it. when its not too hot.. 
I think Peter was indicating its just a physiological result.
I think Peter was indicating its just a physiological result.
Yes; one is working hard, needs eyes on the back of their head (other traffic – remember in the UK a TCAS1 will help only partly because 1/2 the traffic is TXP=OFF) and if doing this solo, a mistake is likely going to be bad.
But hey circuits is what separates men from sheep, as this guy would tell you
In this case it ended very badly, largely because he was doing it alone.
If you don’t “remember” to use right rudder in that situation, you should not be flying. Simple as that.
I agree with that, but one practical issue is that many modern (actually 1960s and newer) planes have quite ineffective rudders, and in typical flying don’t need much rudder input. Just enough rudder use allow for a mild crosswind, no slipping and not much need to overcome non-existent adverse yaw. So the pilot never learns to use the rudder very well, despite the plane needing a lot of rudder pedal deflection for a go around. This is not a good recipe for safety in a go around in an unfamiliar plane.
I remember from my PPL training that the instructor emphasized the use of rudder on takeoff and climb, even though it was only a 100hp-plane. Hence, I still do it naturally.
Nowadays, with adverse yaw having been eliminated for the most part by aircraft design, any instructor who teaches rudder mainly as a way to balance out regular turns in normal flight (as opposed to using rudder to compensate in high power/low speed climbs and low-power/high speed descents) clearly is not putting the focus on the important things.
Peter wrote:
es; one is working hard, needs eyes on the back of their head (other traffic – remember in the UK a TCAS1 will help only partly because 1/2 the traffic is TXP=OFF)
or you just use your eyes and ears to listen to other people’s position reports in the circuit, and look out to validate the reports. It’s not hard, looking at a screen in the circuit for traffic positions is an unnecessary distraction IMO. And when you operate from an uncontrolled field that’s the only way to do it, it works just fine.
I do wonder if tailwheel training would help prevent loss of control accidents such as these. The reason I say this is that learning tailwheel flying taught me to confidently control the aircraft when low to and on the ground. In many tricycle gear aircraft you can just vaguely point at the runway and hold the yoke back until you plonk down. When you’re used – and expecting – to be maintaining an accurate landing attitude and being actively using your feet on every landing, crosswind or not as one must be in a tailwheel, I would expect an accident like this to be less likely.
IO390 wrote:
n many tricycle gear aircraft you can just vaguely point at the runway and hold the yoke back until you plonk down. When you’re used – and expecting – to be maintaining an accurate landing attitude and being actively using your feet on every landing, crosswind or not as one must be in a tailwheel, I would expect an accident like this to be less likely.
Very well put. Just holding the aircraft in a more or less vague position in the flare (hopefully with nosewheel at least a little bit up) until it touches (or bumps) down by itself is what a lot of pilots actually do. I believe it’s also called “hold & hope”. The results are of course depending on factors like wind, damping etc. and thus not really controllable.
Flying a tailwheel aircraft forces you to control every aspect of the landing (especially every movement along the three axes) until coming to a full stop. I strongly believe that having tailwheel experience is also very valuable for flying nosewheel aircraft.
