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Drone delivery of packages, and restricted areas for drones

@Maoraigh. We need a TAF. 20th December on Mull.

Predict 40kts/G75kts. Viz 200m in driving hail and ice. Embedded CB.

It will never happen

Last Edited by BeechBaby at 19 Dec 20:43
Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

@kwlf I think one can always identify some circumstances where there is a need, the question is whether that need occurs enough to make implementation worthwhile?

In any case 120mph with a reasonable payload, range and weather capability is quite an ask.

The airspace provision is going to be problematic. Well, those pushing the technology will have no problem with the idea of closed, dedicated corridors but we who fly GA won’t like it! There’s lots of talk about EC, but I think its obvious this will be a backup defence rather than the primary means of ensuring safety. Drone corridors will have to be like fenced-off railway lines – prohibited to enter.

EGLM & EGTN

Payload for medical samples need not be substantial as they tend to be very light. You can buy a remote control vehicle with the necessary range and speed off-the-shelf so I don’t see why it would be difficult to develop one specifically. Snow and ice I agree would be problematic, wind less so. That would be part of the reasoning to build a high-speed vehicle. As with full size aircraft, a fast aircraft with a high wing loading will cope with wind far better than a slow aircraft with a low wing loading.

There’s a reason this is being trialled in Africa rather than Europe:

https://www.flyzipline.com/how-it-works/

but it’s been operating for years now and the payload (1.75kg) and range (100 miles+) are much greater than you would need in most circumstances. It would be interesting to see some data about their loss rates and availability.

I think you would also need a vehicle that landed unconventionally – e.g. by catching a wire with a hook rather than needing to master VTOL in all weathers.

Keeping drones separate from full size aircraft is a problem, but one that is likely to trouble us in Europe more than elsewhere. In any case, they can fly safely at very low levels in a way that we cannot.

You would find no shortage of applications for medical drones globally, and probably plenty even in Europe (it would be a niche, but a large niche). Look at the current problem of vaccine distribution and imagine how that will play out in rural Africa, Indonesia or South America.

Last Edited by kwlf at 20 Dec 10:18

More to the point, UK pilots are getting busted – and will eventually have licenses suspended by Mr “Nameless” at the CAA – for entering these “danger areas”, so it is no joke.

This scheme is IMHO done by the CAA purely as a CYA exercise to enable drones to share the airspace, with the CAA showing they did “all they could” if there is a collision.

One way would be to make them fly very low – below the 500ft min for GA enroute. Technically that is doable, with the sort of sensors drones can have. You could actually do it just with GPS and a terrain/obstacle database, and such products have been available for helicopters for 20+ years. It’s how I would do it. There is much less wind low down, too, which is critical for quadcopter drones which are extremely power limited.

I am very surprised about the Scilly Isles proposal mentioned above. Only about 1800 people live there, there is an airport, during the part of the year when there is tourism there is virtually nonstop twin turboprop traffic which can carry cargo, and the rest of the time not much is happening. It is also a ~30 mile run from Lands End, which is quite a distance. Admittedly there are other islands there which don’t have a runway but only a few people live on those. To me this looks like somebody looking for something to do / empire building. Or it could be a pilot / research project, for something else… GA traffic is tightly controlled along that corridor, with ATC which nobody could describe as “relaxed”

The Zipline scheme looks more viable, because those model planes can carry 1-2 litres of fuel.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom


Fast fairly efficient vtol drone designs are plentiful.
A regular consumer quadcopter can stay up for upto 25 mins so with small modifications could easily do an hour. Add commercial determination and that could very easily be an hour with a 1.5 kg payload.
That’s based on an inefficient quad.
Add wings like those above and the possibilities are huge.
Landing Isn’t an issue even in strong winds as it doesn’t take much to install a structure (perm or temporary) to provide a vertical open tower to land into. These things can handle strong winds already.
The limits on all this are not the technology, it’s the cost of implementation, the processes, procedures and proving how much money it will save.
I am very certain that this will all happen.
It will start with things like the scillies, Isle of wight, hospitals, M.O.D and just grow from there.
Random Amazon parcels…..I don’t think so, but where launch and land can be provided at both ends with some procedures, it’s a no brainer.

There’s a lot of people throwing money at this right now and they do not care how much it may affect GA. Unfortunately I think their voices and pressure will dwarf that from GA. In the long term the compromises provided to allow the two to co-exist will to us, feel like a huge win for them and a huge loss for GA.
It would be good if commercial drones were limited to remain clear of airfields, and held below 500ft with no impact on GA but it’s obviously never going down that route.

United Kingdom

On the other hand they are going to need some lightweight and reasonably affordable electronic conspicuity system to avoid running into each other, and they are very manoeuvrable. And we were there first (and police and helimed and some other GA will have to remain). I think they will have to find some way of allowing drones and GA to coexist.

Of course they will find a way for us to co-exist you are right but what my point was, is that I can see it working perfectly for them and feel like a big loss for us.

United Kingdom

You are probably right.

If they start coming over my garden at low level I’ll be getting my shotgun out ;-)

There is perhaps a sweet spot to be found in their operating altitude – too low to be a problem for regular aircraft and high enough to be well clear of obstructions. You can’t have them skimming the rooftops and crashing into a cherry-picker that suddenly goes up. Powerlines and tall trees might also be a problem. They will probably need some sort of combination of terrain database and obstacle detection.

EGLM & EGTN

My quoted NOTAM above. No comments on it.
Why would 300 UASs be operated as a swarm within a 1nm diameter. circle mainly in the dark, on 7 days?
Practice for a light display?
Site is just off the Great Glen.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
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