Fitting a Garmin 400 or 400W to a PA28

My understanding is that for IFR use you need to install it based on the STC.

I’d go for the least expensive option. In other words, compare the cost of a GPS175 or GNC355A vs the 430W.

I just wouldn’t install a (non-W) 400 anymore. Not being able to fly 3D approaches would be a pity these days and arguably quite limiting for a school plane.

For the rest, ask a competent avionics shop.

Bathman wrote:

He also has a Garmin 430W which I could have but not for next to nothing.

The question is, what is the difference towards a new GTN650 or IFD440. Most 430W I’ve seen are preciously close to those (otherwise I’d have gotten a 2nd one for me a long time ago) so I really wonder if it is worth going with an end of life/support device if for comparatively few money you can get an up to date one. The advantages of the newer boxes are immense, not only regarding what they can do but also how they are updated e.t.c.

If the GNS430W is massively cheaper than a new unit (such as 50% or so) and you want to work on a budget then I’d go for that one, not for the G400.

Bathman wrote:

I will also need an indicator and he has a Garmin GI-102A which comes with the unit.

Consider a G5 or an Aspen pro max. Of all the things I put into my airplane, the Aspen is what I love best as it gives loads of functions and information you don’t know you miss until you have them. If you want to go cheaper, the G5 offers a lot of possibilities and a full HSI with additional features to a GI 102 or similar.

As I understand it, you need to install both the GPS and eventual indicators on STC basis if you want to use them for this purpose.

Non WAAS units don’t make any sense to install anymore.

You need a flight manual supplement for the individual aircraft to fly the RNP approaches

I was surprisingly impressed with the IFD440 when I used one in my IR reval recently

If it’s the same place as I am that also got GPS approaches at both ends, check the conditions of the approach before you go too far.

Bathman wrote:

Obliviously I need to generate an EASA form 1 for the unit but that should be just a case of post it off and write a cheque out as it was all working when pulled from an N reg aircraft.

You don’t need an EASA form 1, but you do need an STC or modification approval. See this blog post about when you don’t need an EASA form 1.

Does anyone know if a separate annunciator panel would be require?

That depends on the STC/mod approval.

Bathman wrote:

Sorry I don’t have the option of a 430W its a 400 or a 400W. I have edited my first post.

I don’t know how the situation with the repairability of the 400 units are. The normal 430 unit can’t be repaired by Garmin anymore. So in any case, I’d go W.

It doesn’t matter that the local approaches won’t do that, the W units are also the much more recent and much better units from CPU/technical point. They have more memory, are faster, have larger databases (the non-W units often have incomplete databases) and so on. Non-W units are cheap because they have large inherent risks, such as they become worthless if something breaks.

Also I reckon that the UK won’t stay out of the 3D approaches for ever. It’s a political b.s. happening which eventually will get resolved.

So I’d definitly go for the 400W if it is to be one of those two. But the much better solution would be a Garmin 175 or similar. Compare the prices before you act. The 175 is relatively inexpensive, seeing that some avionic shops still ask about £ 4-5k for a 400W. The 175 I saw quoted is between £3600 and 4500 (without VAT/with VAT).

The parts without EASA form 1 concession is not generally accepted by avionics shops, especially UK ones, especially of the plane is used for training. It deprives them of revenue, and if they accept it they are likely to charge more for the installation. It works if using a freelance installer, off the books, of course.

There are firms who for a fee will generate an EASA 1 form for you. It needs to be an EASA 145 company with the right approval scope. The cost varies, from a few hundred, to a few k for bigger parts like propellers.

Also the CAA have put a 500 foot minima on all GPS approaches outside controlled airspace

I would like to see a reference for that I call complete BS on it, but it is the typical sort of stuff found on the flight training scene.

As to whether LPV is useful, well it depends. Within the UK, no, because Brussels has blocked the UK using the signal for aviation, due to brexit It works on Alderney etc. But I fly abroad a lot and have never cancelled or changed a single flight due to not having LPV. So my KLN94 + KMD550 continue to be perfectly fine.

Every panel mounted GPS should have an AFMS to be legal, IFR or not, but historically this has been mostly ignored. Anyway there is no such thing as a “VFR GPS” (with the odd exception of the ancient KMD150); the GNS boxes have no “VFR” config. The KLN94 does (the UK CAA inspector set it in 2002 when I got my plane new, saying the KLN94 is not legal for IFR ) but nobody uses it these days.