Fixed gear speed penalty

OK let me get this straight in my head...

You guys are saying there are maintenance firms in Germany and France that will do (for example) an SR22, perform the full Annual service IAW the MM, and invoice €2150 and no more?

You might like to suggest to them to advertise in the UK

Back to the original question. I fly both the 172RG and the 182RG and occasionally their fixed u/c brethren. In my experience, the speed penalty - depending on the particular airframe(s) - is in the 12-15 kts region. Btw, both the 172RG and the 182RG I fly are normally aspirated.

You guys are saying there are maintenance firms in Germany and France that will do (for example) an SR22, perform the full Annual service IAW the MM, and invoice €2150 and no more?

As said, that is the flat fee doing the annual inspection. On top you will have standard materials (oil, filter, a few gaskets and rings)...about 200 Euros. Discrepancies come on top of course and that can make a huge difference (condition of the aircraft!). What also makes a big difference is whether you are N-reg. or EASA-reg. In case of an EASA-reg. you end up replacing numerous perfectly working items, something people operating on FAR91 wouldn't normally do.

And then you end up paying VAT of course.

Did your number include parts?

Yea I know it is no problem in Europe! I went from the Cessna 150 I flew directly onto the Seneca II. Had I bought one, no problem with insurance.

My question was for the FAA world. I keep hearing horror stories from the US of people who buy themselves relatively unproblematic planes like an Arrow I or II or a vintage Mooney and have hellish problems getting insured. I am well aware that this is not an FAA problem but the insurances who seem to ask very unreasonable preconditions for someone flying what they call a "complex", despite proper licensing and endorsement.

Never mind... from 2014 on this will play a much smaller role in Europe.

I keep hearing horror stories from the US of people who buy themselves relatively unproblematic planes like an Arrow I or II or a vintage Mooney and have hellish problems getting insured

While I don't know about the ownership situation, it's never been an issue for me buying renter's insurance.

I've only heard these stories wrt much more complex / powerful a/c than an Arrow.

Fuel savings on folding wheels at £2/l might work out at around £1000 every hundred hours. You also have to consider practical limitations of taking an RG onto muddy grass in winter. My 2p is that unless I was flying more than 150~200 hours p.a. on that a/c I would vote for the simplicity of FG.

Would also suggest a well rigged Archer or AA5 Tiger will be quite close on block speeds to your average well used Arrow. The gap grows with HP as parasite drag increases geometrically, so a TB10 vs TB20 will favour the RG at 65~75%.

O come on guys, stop being such penny pinchers... a retractable plane is just cool! So much more beautiful with the wheels up. Hmm, hardly ever see her with the wheels up though... And, OK, usually a fixed gear looks nicer than an extended RG... Let me try this then: you get 2 rushes of relief. One when you land in one piece, and one before that, seeing these 3 greens pop up!

As to maintenance costs, I had some SB's on the gear over the last years, but I guess (and hope) that these were the unevitable teething problems. I also estimate the additional recurring maintenance costs to be about 10%. Other than greasing, inspecting etc, each annual the plane goes on jacks for testing.

That's a good point - the need to buy jacks.

I am going to buy my own jacks, because currently we are borrowing them. Then I can dry-lease them out to freelance engineers.

Any suggestions?

Actually that can't be right. On a fixed gear, you still need to service the wheels, which needs jacks, surely?

My Comanche buddy made his jacks: all thread, threaded hand wheel, triangular base weldment. They work fine and are ultra sturdy.

On a fixed gear aircraft you can service one wheel at a time, and typically that does not require a dedicated jack. For the nose wheel, you can generally tie down the tail.