Peter, weren’t you getting cleared across the SAM sector by Portsmouth CTA ie LONDON terminal control? If so why would you need a new clearance to enter another LONDON sector? It would be coordinated. If I am flying from London sector into a Luton (ie LONDON) sector, I don’t get recleared.
The part I don’t t entirely follow is you asked for a descent at SAM into the solent class D, having previously presumably been in class A above the class D west of SAM. Had you continued in class A, then surely the D boundary would have been irrelevant because you had never left class A, and this would have continued to be true until they dumped you OCAS. Once you had descended then the boundary would also be irrelevant because you would have been below class A at the boundary.
The Class A west and above Bournemouth up to Q41 is FL95.
As Peter got transit through Portsmouth CTA at FL65 by speaking with Solent and without the phraseology of a relayed clearance it is a good indication that part of Q41 and Portsmouth CTA are delegated to Solent. We don’t know the exact arrangement hence the talk of LoA previously.
The RNAV STAR seem to all finish at SAM at FL90 with the hold between alt 2000 and FL100. Couldn’t find the traditional STAR. Maybe it is an indication that Solent have a delegation for Portsmouth CTA up to FL95 or FL105
Xtophe wrote:
without the phraseology of a relayed clearance
Is that phraseology really used when one ATC unit relays the clearance of another? I thought it was only used when a clearance was relayed by a non-ATC station such as an AFIS.
Xtophe wrote:
The Class A west and above Bournemouth up to Q41 is FL95.
As Peter got transit through Portsmouth CTA at FL65 by speaking with Solent and without the phraseology of a relayed clearance it is a good indication that part of Q41 and Portsmouth CTA are delegated to Solent. We don’t know the exact arrangement hence the talk of LoA previously.
The RNAV STAR seem to all finish at SAM at FL90 with the hold between alt 2000 and FL100. Couldn’t find the traditional STAR. Maybe it is an indication that Solent have a delegation for Portsmouth CTA up to FL95 or 105
Why does it matter if it was delegated?
Peter, weren’t you getting cleared across the SAM sector by Portsmouth CTA ie LONDON terminal control?
Not according to the radio.
The part I don’t t entirely follow is you asked for a descent at SAM into the solent class D, having previously presumably been in class A above the class D west of SAM. Had you continued in class A, then surely the D boundary would have been irrelevant because you had never left class A, and this would have continued to be true until they dumped you OCAS. Once you had descended then the boundary would also be irrelevant because you would have been below class A at the boundary.
That is a very good observation, but even though the CAA map shows the Class A to be continuous (it does that because it is correctly drawn; there are never boundaries shown where the airspace class is constant) “we” don’t know that the airspaces are managed by the same unit(s).
When I indicated my intention to descend (abeam SAM), and the reason (I said “to avoid busting the 5500ft Class A”) the ATCO could have told me that I don’t need to, but he didn’t.
You are clean in “blah blah” eastbound.
The limits of “blah blah” on your chart is the clearance limit. They don’t have to explicitly tell you what the limit is.
Just a very amateur and inexperienced piece of digging into the UK eAIP! 
Both the Solent CTA-2/CTA-6 and Portsmouth CTA-6 areas have a primary contact frequency of 120.230 (as shown at ENR6-38, ENR6-43 and ENR2.2).
For the former areas, controlling authority is shown as Southampton ATC/Solent Radar (on 120.230) and the latter is shown as London Control (also 120.230). In addition, the former has the note " When active the top level of the Solent CTA (5500 FT ALT) is entirely contiguous with the overlying en-route airspace structure".
Don’t know if that helps at all – realise it doesn’t directly address the London TMA-13 clearance issue.
That is hugely relevant @nickp and clearly suggests that my Class A clearance above SAM would have continued past their CAS.
Then, why did the controller not offer me the option of level flight further down route? Maybe the agreement with London Control was on the basis “ok, but get him out of there asap”.
The pilot would not know any of this, anyway.
Peter, I just don’t see the issue, you never left controlled airspace, the Solent controller isn’t just going to drop you into a CAS bust in level flight in contiguous airspace. Are you sure you aren’t maybe overthinking this a little bit?
