At the low levels I fly at I find VOR’s next to useless. I often can’t get reception and with the decommissioning of VOR’s based at airfields eg Newcastle they can’t navigate me to where I want to go.
And my days of using the KNS80 to ghost the LHR VOR are long gone. Too risky.
NDBs on the other hand are located at pretty well every regional international airport in the UK often with a tDME. I do find this combination much more usefull.
@arj1 there were plates for VOR/DME when chartered were operated at Elstree/Stapleford and they have been used by some (obviously those who don’t have GPS) for DIY cloud-breaks, the “commercial minima” are really high than SERA VMC in Class G and about those in Class D, I doubt that fact would even change if these are re-introduced again or add to the AIP
I would even argue it’s even bad for someone flying with GPS to go (or be forced) and fly a published VOR/DME both in terms of his dispatch rate and his safety, as backup it could be useful though…
I don’t know how VOR/DME approach are designed but there is no way it can get to 250ft agl & 1nm on VOR/DME on the typical GA 700m runway, especially if the nav aid is 2nm away with some funky offsets and the MAPt is not the threshold
If I have both GPS and VOR near London, I would personally go for straight-in on GPS in a fast touring SEP given the tight length of the runways and flat land, after all we are not flying in Chamonix 
Ibra wrote:
I don’t know how VOR/DME approach are designed but there is no way it can get to 250ft agl & 1nm on VOR/DME on the typical GA 700m runway, especially if the nav aid is 2nm away with some funky offsets and the MAPt is not the threshold
Why not?
(Of course a 700 m runway for IFR is tricky anyway with normal glideslopes.)
Yes I was referring on putting higher 5deg glide slopes plus angular & position offsets that will surely add up a lot, besides just obstacles & terrain…
A 5deg offset ILS/DME to 5km runway on 3deg slope has 250ft agl & 2.5km RVR in TERPS, I don’t see how VOR/DME can get anywhere closer, especially if the VOR is miles away and DME also reads runway length on it’s way
There is VOR/DME at Southampton, the higher minima comes handy for rating renewals but not much of practical use 
Do you have a plate for VOR/DME with 350ft agl & 2km RVR?
I would be even impressed to see one having 450ft agl & 2.5km for CAT A
Ibra wrote:
Do you have a plate for VOR/DME with 350ft agl & 2km RVR?
I would be even impressed to see one having 450ft agl & 2.5km for CAT A
The lowest minima I’ve found for VOR/DME are one at ESOK with 327’ and 800 m (offset 3°) and one at ESNS with 368’ and 1000 m (offset 4°). Both Cat A-D, 2500 m runways and 3.0° nominal glide slope. There are a handful of other VOR/DME approaches in Sweden with similar but slightly higher minima.
Very impressive, VOR/DME is almost middle of the runway !
Ultranomad wrote:
@Bathman, for an NDB the biggest cost by far is the calibration flights.
What does one calibrate with an NDB? I understand ILS, VOR or DME calibration or at least validation (cross-check by independent means that the information given by these systems matches with another system). But NDB? I was under the impression it radiates radio signal, and as long as the frequency of the radio signal is correct, it doesn’t make any difference… The whole “work” is done on the receiver (ADF) side, and doesn’t depend on any characteristic of the radio signal except the frequency of the carrier?
Jujupilote wrote:
Do the usual panel GPS use Galileo ?
None does. According to the IFR TK course I took not that long ago, only Navstar GPS is “approved” for (civil) aviation use. One’s pocket computer (AKA "smart"phone) uses Galileo, Beidou, Glonass, but AFAIK no panel mount civil aviation equipment does. I wonder if/when the other constellations become “approved”, our receivers will need changing or just software upgrade?
Ultranomad wrote:
for an NDB the biggest cost by far is the calibration flights
I’ve never known of an NDB having to be checked with a Calibratin flight. ILS certainly.
NDB calibration: making sure it’s not broadcasting ash cup criket games again on Saturday afternoons
