A recent study in Aviasport found that out of 60 airfields in Greece, only 10 had Avgas (sometimes.)
boscomantico wrote:
Could you finally share what your reliable information was? Would be useful to know if it was just a cockup by that guy or if the airport really changes opening hours at short notice.
T28 wrote:
We need somebody reliably informed to shed more light.
Regarding Kithira LGKC and Mr. Osranek’s report :
OK its about time I shed some light.
I was intentionally waiting until I would talk face to face with the airport personnel.
I was the person providing the reliable information that @Peter mentioned.
Last weekend AOPA Greece had a Fly In at Kithira where I participated along with another 3 aircraft.
I know since long time ago the Airport Manager but at the dinner we had all together at the wonderful Taverna of Platanos in Mylopotamos village, one of the best in the island btw, (Ref. https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g6105960-d2275557-i141932317-Platanos-Mylopotamos_Kythira_Attica.html )
I got to talk with all three, Airport Manager (AM), Handling Station Manager (HSM) and Handling Personnel (HP) – [marked accordingly in the picture below ! that I took when I got up from the table.]
The whole incident was a cockup.
Somebody decided to Fly somewhere without checking properly the NOTAMs (which yes, do change and the change was not the morning of his departure), without respecting airport personnel and few more bad attitude behaviors.
He acted like he was in a regular central Europe GA airfield (not airport) where you just Fly In without any prerequisites, just land, park, leave the field, have a nice time, return, start up, taxi and depart by just using the VHF for communications as we all do. The airport procedures, personnel and NOTAMs where almost totally ignored.
The attitude towards the three personnel I mention was totally arrogant and to some extent even offensive.
People in Kithira Airport abide by the regulations the state has put to this state airport and – as much as they would like – can not turn it in to a relaxed GA airfield style even if it does not have a great amount of Commercial traffic.
They just do their job as they should.
I do not need to go in to full details but what happened on the arrival and departure of the subject flight was a common case of pilot with a bad/arrogant attitude which in turn got slammed back with some attitude too within the professional limits.
Thats all there is to it.
A storm in a teacup, that as usual, gets hyped by an unsubstantiated forum/blog post.
And as the airport Manager told me on that discussion on that table with our wine,
“we have many pilots coming in who are properly prepared and who have such a nice attitude that really such isolated incidents are nothing. We see the big picture and we are very happy with 99% of visiting pilots, be it Greek or from abroad, who in majority come properly prepared.”
MedFlyer wrote:
A clarification for Martin Osranek and others: While the other 2-3 brands of “coordination” are not effectivity champions,the brand that Martin warns about ,is the remnant of the good old Soviet Olympic Airways.The low level personel are low payed,have a constantly insecure career,have a small knowledge of English and communication and spend a high time of presence in a disorganized environment.Now the high personel combine the Soviet nomenclature arrogance with lack of motivations concerning GA,to sit down and work towards effectivity. Guess what.. even the 14 airport foreign renter forgot to pay his dues to the government for 2019 ; instead he managed to receive gov funds as compensation for lost income for 2020 due to Covid low utilization. Cheers!
My beloved @MedFlyer ! you know how much I respect you and we have have had great GA flying experiences in Greece two decades ago since you (rightfully) gave up GA Flying. I hereby assure you that the specific 3 airport personnel mentioned – that I personally met – are far from that type you describe. In other airports there may still be some of them lurking around, not in Kithira though.
Thanks petakas. I had no doubt the person with the reliable information was you.
I am not surprised. Many pilots don‘t know how to prepare an international flight. And expect things in different countries to work more or less the same way as at home.
False pireps have always existed. One has to read them with a grain of salt.
Bottom line is one must „monitor“ airport Greek NOTAMs constantly, from the very first day the flight is put into planning, until the morning of departure.
Anyway, this episode did fit the topic very well, since if OOH operations became somehow possible in Greece (I don‘t believe it ever will), problems like this one would become less of an issue.
The problem is that these false reports get a big circulation. They get posted in fb, in “private” groups on whatsapp, telegram, etc.
And practically nobody verifies these reports. You can’t ask the poster because a) mostly you don’t know his ID because the info was secondhand (although in this case the name googles instantly and with a high prob to a cardiologist in Germany) and anyway b) the guy will get offended if you question the veracity of the report.
On top of that we get the “predator handler” problem (which exists everywhere in Europe, and only seasoned travellers know how to deal with it) and which alone accounts for huge variations in airport expenses.
You will never get outside ops hours concessions at any airport where there is a CAA office, which is every airport in Greece 
Well, I know of obscure exceptions, but won’t post names.
For those who know Greece : we need to manage a karpouzi bombing of Fraport…
Two karpouzis on each wing, low pass… I m just thinking about the karpouzi release.
May be not so efficient but great
petakas wrote:
People in Kithira Airport abide by the regulations the state has put to this state airport and – as much as they would like – can not turn it in to a relaxed GA airfield style even if it does not have a great amount of Commercial traffic.
They just do their job as they should.
While this is commendable and while I have all the understanding for their frustration with pilots who are incapable of reading Notams and bitching afterwards, isn’t the fact that these regulations put to those state airports the reason for all the trouble? Isn’t it a total waste of infrastructure to limit opening hours to a few hours per day and let the infrastructure lay dormant for the rest of the time?
It is all very well to say, read your notams and plan ahead, but if these things get changed on short notice then flying to these destinations simply can become impracticable. It is very sad to see that more and more airports go this way, not only in Greece but as we hear outpricing and PPR/handling mania also exists elsewhere. This makes GA less and less viable as a reliable means of going places.
I am sure that the people you mention don’t do anything but their jobs and that they have no influence over the goings on in Greece, but that does not make the situation any better. With more and more airports and even airfields South of the Alps becoming expensive tourist traps who clearly don’t want GA at all, it puts the whole purpose of GA in those countries in question.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
It is all very well to say, read your notams and plan ahead, but if these things get changed on short notice then flying to these destinations simply can become impracticable.
Sure, but the point is that in this case things did not get changed on short notice. Anyone could check that by reading the historic NOTAMS.
My post #18:
It seems the NOTAM Mr. Osranek read was in fact issued the same day, but a different NOTAM with essentially the same information was issued two weeks easrlier.
This is interesting
Best regards
Athanasia Protopsalti
KIT Station Manager
So… how does this work?
EDIT: turns out the AIP is duff (and probably has been for years). LGKC’s status as a “port of entry” has been a matter of debate for a long time, and probably just didn’t get tested until I tried it for this weekend.
@petakas, perhaps info to pass on for updating the AOPA Hellas Greece guidelines where LGKC is listed as an international airport of entry…. perhaps to indicate for LGKC entry only from countries that are both Schengen and EU. This AOPA web page is the bible for pilots wanting to visit Greece and usually has the best and most current reference information for planning a trip.
