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AOPA Switzerland fighting to drop the ELP for VFR PPLs... goofy or not? (and general ELP stuff)

Yes France cultivates its language and most of the English we learn is as you say from television, music, you tube etc.. That is American English.
But as has been said before ATC phraseology is a language unto itself which is why like all languages it continuously adapts.
If you listen on the internet to some of the American ground controllers etc I defy the majority, English 1st languagers or not to understand them. And neither do foreign pilots in the states. One I remember well at Kennedy Airport. “Line up and follow the 1%”. I had not a clue what that meant and it took me a while to find out.

France

US ATC is indeed hard to understand, but the US movie business does not make movies which have that kind of speech in them; it would be no good for export.

Bordeaux Jim is the expert on these matters in France and if I post what he says I get jumped on because I am not allowed to say it

Back to the Swiss matter, it appears to be centred on certain practices around Sion. Why AOPA CH is driving this, remains a mystery, but it be just a small number of individuals.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

gallois wrote:

“Line up and follow the 1%”. I had not a clue what that meant and it took me a while to find out.

Bizjet?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Well, removing the ELP will not help the French-speaking pilots to land in Sion, since the requirement to speak English at all controlled Swiss aerodromes has been removed (except for Zurich). Sion ATC speaks fluently French, so all French-only pilots, don’t need an ELP there.

It is actually a joke that French in Sion is such a big thing, since the language border is soo close. (Yes, I know, Valais has a very hard language barrier beyond Sierre/Siders, like another country.) The only usable alternate in that area is Raron, which is already Swissgerman. And that’s why they want the ELP removal: All French-speaking pilots without an ELP, cannot currently land legally there.

Same for all French-speaking pilots from Vaud, Fribourg, Geneva, or even French-speaking part of canton Bern, who want to land in Bern-Belp. Since Bern-city is German-speaking, English or German RT is required, therefore ELP for the French-speaking pilots. Without an ELP, they currently cannot fly there. They are more or less unable to fly to the German or Italian-speaking part of Switzerland at all.

For me, it is absolutely not understandable why the French-speaking pilots in Switzerland have such a big lobby. All (Swiss)German-speaking pilots manage to get an ELP, even most Italian-speaking ones. For such a small country like Switzerland, it is absolutely necessary to have one RT language. I liked it when they introduced “English-only” in CAS, but we all know, that this rule didn’t last for long. It’s a joke that all (Swiss)German- and Italian-speaking pilots even speak English at uncontrolled aerodromes, while the French-speaking ones need to speak French in the Romandie. Sorry, it’s a big no-go for me!

Sure, German and Italian are now also allowed in the corresponding language regions, but German is only used by Germans and especially Italian by Italians, to fly in Switzerland. Swissgermans don’t even learn German RT… That’s why Swissgermans use English also in Germany.

Last Edited by Frans at 06 Jul 09:17
Switzerland

Whilst I believe French pilots can speak French at Sion, AIUI we still need ELP to cross the border, legally speaking.

France

AFAIK, you can legally fly into Switzerland with a French LP, as long as you only use French for radio communication. And that is of course only possible in the French-speaking part of Switzerland aka Romandie.

Last Edited by Frans at 06 Jul 10:24
Switzerland

The real problem is the technical requirement to speak on the radio. Instead of fussing about with ridiculous over-complex laws governing training and testing in a foreign language (which don’t work), it would be better for people in areas with diverse language usage to figure out how to eliminate the radio from as much flying as possible.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 06 Jul 13:29

For me, it is absolutely not understandable why the French-speaking pilots in Switzerland have such a big lobby.

Ain’t for me either. Either you aviate, and adapt and use its language, or not… whatever that means
Funnily (I’d better write « interestingly ») enough, all pilots use English on my VFR only field… guess it unfortunately comes down to that word I come to hate, namely culture.

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Frans wrote:

Well, removing the ELP will not help the French-speaking pilots to land in Sion, since the requirement to speak English at all controlled Swiss aerodromes has been removed (except for Zurich). Sion ATC speaks fluently French, so all French-only pilots, don’t need an ELP there.

Oh, when did that happen? I was just aware that this actually did start the whole thing. How about Geneva and Les Eplatures?

If that is the case, then what are they on about? It just deepens the mystery.

Frans wrote:

For me, it is absolutely not understandable why the French-speaking pilots in Switzerland have such a big lobby. All (Swiss)German-speaking pilots manage to get an ELP, even most Italian-speaking ones. For such a small country like Switzerland, it is absolutely necessary to have one RT language. I liked it when they introduced “English-only” in CAS, but we all know, that this rule didn’t last for long. It’s a joke that all (Swiss)German- and Italian-speaking pilots even speak English at uncontrolled aerodromes, while the French-speaking ones need to speak French in the Romandie. Sorry, it’s a big no-go for me!

Full agreement.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Oh, when did that happen? I was just aware that this actually did start the whole thing. How about Geneva and Les Eplatures?
English-only was canceled in Sion back in 2020 and in the rest of Switzerland begin 2022. You can find official sources here and here.

Geneva and Les Eplatures offer therefore ATC services in French as well. Geneva even for IFR I guess, as it is a bi-national airport for France and Switzerland. Zurich remains English-only.

No joke: There is even a special website in French dedicated to “English Only NO” in Switzerland.
Last Edited by Frans at 06 Jul 19:55
Switzerland
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