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What is a "racetrack to ILS"? LFAT ILS13 (and is OKPEM a hold or not?)

ATCO probably used the word “racetrack” because as @johnh says in French she would have said fly the hippodrome which is part of a procedure.
When you questioned her she probably was a little taken aback and thought that her ELP skills were lacking. She might even have questioned someone else in the control room to see if she had got it right. She had.
What you should have done was to enter the racetrack and it is a racetrack due to the arrow heads, via a parallel entry, then go round the race track fully and if not given cleared for the approach when reaching OKPEM, go round again. If cleared for the approach continue to OLMAV and the approach waiting for cleared to land from LFAT tower. AFIUK this is pretty standard worldwide.

France

No racetrack is published, however. I’ve just looked through the LFAT plates. Also no “hold” instruction was issued.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Shouldn’t it be something like “DCT OKPEM, fly reversal at OKPEM. Cleared procedural ILS 13 from OKPEM”?

EGTR

If told to hold you fly the hold, it might well be that the hold and the racetrack are exactly the same. The plate does call it a hold in the text.
If told to fly the racetrack you fly the racetrack (even if it is the same thing) but you treat it as part of the procedure which in this case might be exactly the same pattern as the hold and exactly the same clearance. Well, sort of. I got it wrong last time. If it is fly the hold you need to wait for further clearance to continue the approach. If it’s fly the racetrack you could usually assume you are cleared for the approach.
But as @Dan wrote if not sure as you approach OKPEM having flown the racetrack you should always check in case of a breakdown in communication. eg “In bound OKPEM in the racetrack, confirm cleared to continue the approach?”

France

I don’t think so. If a hold “until cleared to leave” was desired, they should have said “hold at OKPEM”. Otherwise it is a bit like the other thread I linked in post 1.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

So why did ATC ask for that? ATC are supposed to be a professional service, and France is a 1st World country.

+1 on that. And one could alway file a safety report.

It is always difficult to analyse this kind of situation… in hindsight… my experience has been to use assertive RT, the more so in case of doubt.
The action you took, e.g. the route you flew would be exactly what most of us would have done, and IMHO correct. OTOH I would feel rather uncomfortable flying some procedure (approach via holding) whilst ATC talks about something else (approach via racetrack) and would insist on receiving a proper answer iso silence…

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

The racetrack is part of the procedure turn.
She asked you to enter the racetrack ie make a procedure turn via the published racetrack.
@Dan I’m sorry I disagree with you tha t Peter flew the correct turn. He did not.
There was no ambiguity. If she had wanted him to hold she would (or should have said “hold at” and Peter would have had to fly the hold. She possibly got confused when Peter didn’t know what a racetrack was.
I have never had “hold until cleared to leave” and I wouldn’t expect to. In such a case you might get “hold at XXXX. HAP 12h30”
I can’t remember the English for HAP at the moment(brain fade).
But I do agree with you. “If you are not sure, ask”.

France

I hear “hold at XXXXX” every time I fly IFR, from e.g. London Control. That is correct phraseology. And it means you hold until released, or until you declare a mayday.

Here I was sent to a waypoint, no hold instruction, and referring to a “racetrack” which doesn’t exist.

The context, FWIW (zero, because there isn’t supposed to be ambiguity) was to make time for the TBM to fly the ILS before me.

Dan is an ex airline pilot with vast experience.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

So I asked “do you want me to enter the hold at OKPEM and then fly back to OLMAV and then to TUKVI?”

As usually when ELP is in question, more is less and less is more I believe “Hold at OKPEM. Confirm?” would be sufficient because that’s what’s on the plate and the further from OKPEM to OLMAV to TUKVI is also on the plate, so no need to ask for it. Entering holding pattern at OKPEM (even just overflying it e.g. coming from east if further clearance ia available) is definitely a part of approach procedure while direct TUKVI coming from west is, according to SIA plate, allowed with special clearance.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

gallois wrote:

The racetrack is part of the procedure turn.
She asked you to enter the racetrack ie make a procedure turn via the published racetrack.

There is no racetrack charted for LFAT ILS 13, so the controller used incorrect terminology and Peter was quite right in asking for clarification. There is a hold charted at OKPEM, but that’s not the same thing. (Indeed, the AIP plate is explicit that it is a hold and not a racetrack.)

I’m sorry I disagree with [Dan] that Peter flew the correct turn. He did not.

Well, he did an offset entry rather than a parallel entry. Is that what you mean?

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 04 Mar 09:48
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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